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  1. #161
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    TC-20A:
    https://youtu.be/eB1sryLyn0w?t=14

    7/24 taper on BT15 is about an inch long and 3/4 inch at the largest Diameter! There was a few ceramic insulator shops locally that ran them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Load a part wrong in the beastly 40-taper machines?
    It doesn't trash your spindle. And you don't get to throw a fantastic vendor under the buss, when it wasn't their fault at all.
    Then you disappear from the thread after the realization of what actually happened. Don't go thinking everybody forgot about that.
    Yea I remember that thread. I never can stick around long enough to see these threads through. Gets too bickery. Interesting what happened.

    We are using pullstuds from maritool and I had a bit of worry because of that thread as we are running a 3” facemill in it(s700). But so far it’s been all good. I think the ones we have are like the high torque ones or something

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    I've always thought the RMC would be a fantastic garage machine - one to play with and just make bits for the bikes etc.
    Well, in my world it's a toss up for that, or a Shizuoka ST-NR turret mill....
    I think eventually that's where the RMC is headed along with a BP and SAG14 lathe. Take the spindle motor off and you can get it under the lowest of doors.

    I made motorcycle triple clamps on the RMC for a short while, for dirt bikes. At the same time Answer were making triple clamps, their's took 15 minutes to make, I was wasting my time.

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  5. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglemike View Post
    I ran into something similar when I got my Robo. It was used, and when I called Fanuc, they wanted to know what I was going to use it for. When I told them I might use it for some competition shooting accessories, it was over. I got enough service from Methods to survive, but it wasn't as good an experience as from B.
    If I knew as much about repairing machines as some of the guys here, I might look more kindly on stuff with the tired and broken controls. As it is, I have just enough energy to make parts and provide service, so I choose machines that I hope are reliable and don't waste time and stress on unreliable stuff.
    Good luck to all!
    Interesting segment on NPR tonight, about Toyota's being the preferred make of car/suv for the Taliban.

    So you can't make shooting accessories on a Robo, but if your the Taliban it's OK to sell them Toyota's. In reality I'm not sure that Taliban are actually buying Toyota's. Unless it's in the Pak tribal areas.

    More likely their stopping the Toyota owners, executing them and taking their Toyota.

    Great testing for Toyota though, grim conditions, no maintenace, driven by f'ing maniac Pikeys. Sorry meant Taliban.

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  7. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkd View Post
    cough:agenda:cough
    How have the laws of physics changed in a few decades?

    Nobody has yet to explain why a <magic> 30 taper is better than a 40 but a 20 taper is not better than a 30.
    makes no sense.
    Ohhhhh ye of little faith!!!
    Rambling time....
    Vast majority of my stuff was prismatic electrical enclosures and associated flat panels.
    Therefore distortion was always a potential, so cutting process was standardised to avoid it.
    All parts were 'grammed to go on all machines (when we had the Robos because the 10k spindle) and then when I got the Feelers, the 10mm finishers went to 12.5k, 8mm higher and 6mm and below to 15k rpm.

    Standard roughing cut data would be 14mm dia Garr/MA Ford Knuckle, S10000 F5000 LOC 150% stepover 30% (HS Paths).
    The #30s would rock - BarBarBarBarBar when cutting, where the #40's would be more Bar..Bar..Bar.. (although nowhere near as bad as the stupid HardingeBP vid Camerman linked) because of the slower acc/dec.
    Add the fact that the bigger machines have to retract further (toolchange) are slower changing, and have to come back down to the part further and it all adds up.
    Positioning is FAF too - the acc/dec make a big difference. It really does all add up.
    Same as profiling accuracy...the smaller machines were more accurate with corner rads etc, because less table mass at the higher feeds.

    Now...I know what you're thinking..."If you bought a Mikron/Matsuura/Makino, you wouldn't have the problem"...
    This is true...BUT I bought 2x Chevalier machines with 10k spindles thru coolant 24 tool (siderack) and 4th for the price of 1x Matsuura 800VMC.
    And more importantly....for me as a job shop with limited floor area, and production contracts that realistically could all be (legally) cancelled with 3 months notice, the Mats was twice the size to the Chevaliers.
    And to be fair to the Chevaliers, after servo tuning they would "accurately" rough (G05 mode) at F7500 and accurately finish at F2500 profiling.
    So total spend for the 4x of them, was about £230k, including 4x rotaries and more vices tool holders etc than we ever needed.
    4x spindles for the price of 2x Mats (which would have been 40 tool and 15k spindle) in the same space.
    4x separate jobs running simultaneously instead of 2...BIG difference for me with average batch sizes of 25 to 50off.
    And only the first Chevalier was financed...the next was bought cash, then every machine following. It helped me sleep at night with no finance, and also allowed for faster purchase, as the machines were cheaper than (for instance) the Mats.

    Now....#30's.....The Feelers were specced with 15k BBT spindle, 30tools 4th axis prepped, through tool coolant and Fanuc alpha pack. Effectively Robodrill drives/servos.
    Total spend for 3x of these, was around £165k, including the purchase of a nikken 4th and tool holders.
    I modded these to double the size of the coolant tanks (cut/shut made L shapes going under the machine) etc - no biggie had a fantastic fab shop next door and every machine in the place was modified (upgraded) for a reason or another.
    As the case with budget machines, you have to be prepared to either live with a bit of compromise or change to improve them.
    I we took a #40 10k RPM progged part and put it onto the Feeler (or Robodrill previously), there would be an average 30% cycle time reduction.
    If we edited the prog to use the 15k RPM, this would obviously further reduce.
    We did a couple of titanium parts on the Feelers (more rigid than the Robos) - 25mm Tagutec 3P facemill and 10mm 5 flute for roughing and it worked really well too.
    Same as a couple of 304 stainless parts - small tools but then the parts were smallish too (1.5" dia stock).
    As always with these things, life is a compromise - you just have to engineer accordingly (you know this!).


    But all this compromise of budget (smaller footprint) machines allowed 11 CNC's (4x#40's, 3x#30, Prototrak lathe and mill, 2x Siemens 2ax lathes + CMM upstairs and office) in 1,800 square feet.

    With the work I had, what would I do if I did it all over again?
    I still hate finance...so would NEVER start a business financed to the ears.
    Having subsequent Horizontal experience now, for me, the best fit of machines would be:
    2x Prototraks
    2x Mats 5pallet Horis
    2x #40 30tool 15k VMCs
    2x #30 30tool 15k VMCs
    2x 50mm spout Millturns.

    Bigger factory of course, and have to employ a couple more hands....

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  9. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    Ohhhhh ye of little faith!!!
    Rambling time....
    Vast majority of my stuff was prismatic electrical enclosures and associated flat panels.
    Therefore distortion was always a potential, so cutting process was standardised to avoid it.
    All parts were 'grammed to go on all machines (when we had the Robos because the 10k spindle) and then when I got the Feelers, the 10mm finishers went to 12.5k, 8mm higher and 6mm and below to 15k rpm.

    Standard roughing cut data would be 14mm dia Garr/MA Ford Knuckle, S10000 F5000 LOC 150% stepover 30% (HS Paths).
    The #30s would rock - BarBarBarBarBar when cutting, where the #40's would be more Bar..Bar..Bar..


    (although nowhere near as bad as the stupid HardingeBP vid Camerman linked) because of the slower acc/dec.

    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...




    XR 1000 | Hardinge

    ^^^ On this page - you will see there is some editorial - 'mark up" language cut and pasted on the web page itself.

    So they are definitely not finished lol, More FANUC for American market. Nice to see the Fanuc drives and electrical layout in the back.




    and ,




    "Pre-teaser video" - ^^^

    I guess there may be one or two of these in existence (others to follow) and they baby it till they figure out what will make sense for the next "Trade show" coming up.



    Older and concurrent ^^^ V1000 - moving more like it should,

    Mits control (front and back ) + spindle
    (cough,.. cough).

    and




    (previous) V 1320 - 50" X travel ^^^

    ^^^ Priced really well for a 50" machine.


    __________________________________________________




    Some of you might know this guy ^^^ + NEW on American soil -tricked out Talent series.

    Early days for this all but seems encouraging.


    __________________________________________________ _________________________


    Not sure that parasitic time would be a major factor for "theoretical OP".

    Yeah there's a lot 'Physics" that govern what 30 taper machines doooo vs. 40 taper machines vs 50 taper, vs 20-ish taper.

    BUT - best to start with spindle curves for power output vs. RPM and Torque versus RPM. + actual type of spindle and bearing / lubrication design + design intent / intended function.

    From what I've thrashed out in the past there seems to be a "Cubic" or root "3" relationship between work envelope size vs "rigidity" i.e. it's possible a smaller machine can be proportionally more rigid than a machine that has twice the travels and three times the mass.

    The Brother machines are optimized for what they do in terms of wear and replacement of parts / $ made . I think their experience in other industries helps with that "optimized" mind set.

    $100K (new) doesn't buy you a lot but maybe more than it used to ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fltenwheeler View Post
    I am glad I started this discussion using Bother machines. I found out that they are great machines but not what I need. I am limited to size and power for the startup location. I would like something bigger but a Fadal VMC-15 with rigid tapping will fit my space and budget.

    I still would like input.

    Tim
    It's a business thing / business plan thing - not a machine thing IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    Interesting segment on NPR tonight, about Toyota's being the preferred make of car/suv for the Taliban.

    So you can't make shooting accessories on a Robo, but if your the Taliban it's OK to sell them Toyota's. In reality I'm not sure that Taliban are actually buying Toyota's. Unless it's in the Pak tribal areas.

    More likely their stopping the Toyota owners, executing them and taking their Toyota.

    Great testing for Toyota though, grim conditions, no maintenace, driven by f'ing maniac Pikeys. Sorry meant Taliban.
    It's not Toyota's in general. Specifically Land Cruisers.

    Go to any hellhole of the world and those that can afford it will be driving a Land Cruiser. Nissan Patrol is pretty good too, but not as prolific. Middle East, South American jungles and mountains, Australian Outback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    It's not Toyota's in general. Specifically Land Cruisers.

    Go to any hellhole of the world and those that can afford it will be driving a Land Cruiser. Nissan Patrol is pretty good too, but not as prolific. Middle East, South American jungles and mountains, Australian Outback.

    Don't forget the venerable Hilux

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    It's not Toyota's in general. Specifically Land Cruisers.

    Go to any hellhole of the world and those that can afford it will be driving a Land Cruiser. Nissan Patrol is pretty good too, but not as prolific. Middle East, South American jungles and mountains, Australian Outback.
    They have a good amount of Humvees now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Don't forget the venerable Hilux
    Kind of. Good little shitboxes, but not the same thing. Hilux diesel is the poor man's work truck that also happens to be built pretty well. The 80 and 105 series Cruisers have been Toyota's flagship vehicle since about 1990. They were designed from the ground up to be bulletproof.

    The most spectacular river crossing by car. 4x4 off road - YouTube

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    Let's get back on track. We're all jealous that the Talis got free Toyotas and HMMWVs (did they get GMVs, too?!) to mount the free M240s and PKMs we left them. I'm more jealous of the Blackhawks and M134s, but whatever. Hell, I'd be grateful to see a few battle packs of 5.56 right now.

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    My K5 Blazer wasn't nearly that tight!
    All 4 were on the ground, and I had water coming in over the top of my Red Wings.

    Had similar issue as this guy with my Yamahahahahaha Warrior.
    End up on the other side maybe 30' downstream from where I started.


    -------------------

    Think Unimog Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    Don't forget the venerable Hilux
    I have a friend who's claim to fame is rolling the first Hilux sold in the UK. It was less than a week old. What his company didn't know was that he was a rally driver, and was testing it's limits down an Essex lane at night, or past as he found out.

    I have great respect for Toyotas, I have a Corolla that with zero maintenance has gone 350K.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Let's get back on track. We're all jealous that the Talis got free Toyotas and HMMWVs (did they get GMVs, too?!) to mount the free M240s and PKMs we left them. I'm more jealous of the Blackhawks and M134s, but whatever. Hell, I'd be grateful to see a few battle packs of 5.56 right now.
    All the Blackhawkw were maintaned by foreign contractors, so even if any of the Blackhawks are currently capable of being flown, they won't be flying for long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    They have a good amount of Humvees now.
    I wonder how reliable they will be? Especially compared to their Toyotas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    I wonder how reliable they will be? Especially compared to their Toyotas.
    They probably aren't going to be competing with the Hilux, but a lot of those should have the 6.5L diesel and 700R4 tranny, which could keep chugging for a while. And when they do fail it'll be a lot less exciting than when a Blackhawk seizes up mid-flight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    They probably aren't going to be competing with the Hilux, but a lot of those should have the 6.5L diesel and 700R4 tranny, which could keep chugging for a while. And when they do fail it'll be a lot less exciting than when a Blackhawk seizes up mid-flight.
    Yea they will get a solid 500 miles out of them. I think highest mileage I’ve seen on a hmmve was 19k and it had a new engine.

    From my experiences transmissions would go every couple thousand miles engines maybe every 5-10k.

    I doubt they will get much use from them without the huge infrastructure to support those driving hunks of scrap

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    All the Blackhawkw were maintaned by foreign contractors, so even if any of the Blackhawks are currently capable of being flown, they won't be flying for long.
    Perhaps, but I'm sure that is no consolation to the man they hanged from one and flew around Kandahar (presumably with a defector ANA pilot).

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOTT View Post
    They probably aren't going to be competing with the Hilux, but a lot of those should have the 6.5L diesel and 700R4 tranny, which could keep chugging for a while. And when they do fail it'll be a lot less exciting than when a Blackhawk seizes up mid-flight.
    700R4, really? well at least their easy to rebuild. Not the Taliban are going to be able to rebuild those trannies.


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