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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    wheelieking71, I am always willing to work with any machine tool dealer. But I am not interested in selling tooling certs at the huge discount Nikken and Sandvik are able to do. I manufacture and sell direct, my prices reflect that. I dont have 30-50% margin to give to machine tool dealers. Also I dont make customers go thru hoops to see pricing. Its all online for people to see. So machine tool dealers can't bump pricing of my tool holders to make up any margin without the possibility of customer knowing.
    I get it, and that is pretty much exactly what I told him, LOL.
    I just wasn't sure: 1, if he was bullshitting me. I figured not. And 2, how the whole process worked.
    I can tell you this: I "paid" retail for the Kennematal (Erickson) stuff I got. Not, sure what Yamazen paid for that cert.?
    If I had it to do over again, I would tell them to keep their cert.
    But, I had already had the salesman work the quote over several times. And, was kinda starting to feel bad about it.
    That post was not a bag on you in any way! I love that way you run your gig! (as you know I am a several time repeat customer, LOL)
    More outfits need to reconsider how they run their shit.
    I just bought a Big-Kaiser Chip-Fan, and it was like a maze to actually get the damn thing ordered! Pain in my ass!

  2. #42
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    Frank is more than helpful. He's in the process of getting me out of a jam with my metrology group right now regarding some calibrations. I've tried several other vendors holders for BBT/BT30 and I'm back with MariTool after some expensive lessons. I have only 3 other holders that I really like besides Frank's stuff. One is a BBT BigK hydraulic and the other is a Nikken with vibration dampening (forget the name) but you could only get the Nikken in one size and last time I tried to order some they apparently have quit selling them in the US market. The third is ISCAR's in-holder ER collet design. The holder gauge length is like 20 mm, but you can only go to an ER 16 I think. Those are great for small drills and end mills.

    I can say definitively to stay away from the Uber Chucks, total crap after you've changed a dozen tools or so and the gauge length is just too long for a BBT/BT30. Keep your holder gauge length to 60mm or below if possible.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by riabma77 View Post
    Maybe it's a stupid question, but with BBT30 don't you need to wash the face and spindle contact also?
    That is what I meant. The most expensive part of adding a BBT to a Brother is the cost of the additional air assisted wash to the face that is instead of the standard blow down the taper on non BBT S series machines.

  4. #44
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    Tonytn36,

    We are happy to work with you guys, the tool should be shipping per estimate on the quote.

    wheelieking71,

    I know how you feel. I have to get some gage pins that is specific to one manufacturer. Not much, around $60 worth. Standard off the shelf gage pins. I spent the same or more money on my employees labor than the gage pins. Not kidding. Some companies are still in the 1970's.

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  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    wheelieking71,

    I know how you feel. I have to get some gage pins that is specific to one manufacturer. Not much, around $60 worth. Standard off the shelf gage pins. I spent the same or more money on my employees labor than the gage pins. Not kidding. Some companies are still in the 1970's.
    Maybe there is room for bothformats? IDK? And, I am sure the little guys like me (and a slew of others) add up to a very small percentage.
    But! I would like to see the analytics from a web-store like yours, showing how many purchases are made after hours!
    I know, I for one have placed an order in your store at midnight on Saturday night because that is when I had time to do it!
    (maybe not really midnight Sat. night, but it makes the point. Definitely way outside biz hours)
    That was not an option for that dang Kaiser fan.
    Same with MSC. I hate that place as much as the next guy. But, convenience brings HUGE value in a small shop like mine.
    It actually makes sense for me to use MSC because its fast. So, I can get back to work making more $$$ than I would have saved shopping around.
    Lots of people step over dollars to pick up dimes.
    Sorry, waaaaaaay off topic now........I'll shut up.

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  8. #46
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    I don't want to hijack this thread, but can someone post a short program example of the newest Brother control? Maybe just some basic milling, drilling and tapping?
    I only know Fanuc and Okuma language and want to know what the Brother language looks like since we're heavily considering getting one within the next month or so.
    Thanks!

  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    I don't want to hijack this thread, but can someone post a short program example of the newest Brother control? Maybe just some basic milling, drilling and tapping?
    I only know Fanuc and Okuma language and want to know what the Brother language looks like since we're heavily considering getting one within the next month or so.
    Thanks!
    It looks just like your Fanuc code, more or less. There are differences in M codes and some G-codes (G100 for instance), but your Fanuc code should run on it without much work at all. The macro variables are the same as Fanuc (except you get 600 of them without a "option" fee) and you get spiral / conical milling / boring / drilling / etc cycles (also without the "option" fee). G82 with E and L is a wonderful thing for drilling. (Allows a different feedrate for starting the hole, for drilling after starting the hole and then yet another different feedrate for exiting the hole.= 3 feedrates you can use in one cycle to fix drilling issues)

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  11. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    I don't want to hijack this thread, but can someone post a short program example of the newest Brother control? Maybe just some basic milling, drilling and tapping?
    I only know Fanuc and Okuma language and want to know what the Brother language looks like since we're heavily considering getting one within the next month or so.
    Thanks!
    Linky: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ontrol-347547/

    Tony is spot on.
    The only thing that sucks is when you have to write your own post after you paid your CAM maintenance that used to include the best post support in the industry.

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  13. #49
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    Anybody have a video of cutting deep (3.0") pockets in 6061?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captdave View Post
    Anybody have a video of cutting deep (3.0") pockets in 6061?
    EagleMike, are you running any steering stabilizers now? Mike is taking a hefty 3 or 4" deep cut with a standard BT30 S500 in 6061. Dave, have you seen the video of the Brother plowing through 4140 with a 20mm cutter hanging out about 5 inches? I think my approach might be a solid carbide, 5/8 or 16mm 3 flt rougher, neck style with high pressure CTS through the tool. I think 40 to 60 cu"/min MRR would be a safe parameter. I take out over 100 cu"/min with the 1.25" loc 1/2" rougher. Then machine the walls with a 5/8 finisher if you need a nice finish.

  15. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    EagleMike, are you running any steering stabilizers now? Mike is taking a hefty 3 or 4" deep cut with a standard BT30 S500 in 6061. Dave, have you seen the video of the Brother plowing through 4140 with a 20mm cutter hanging out about 5 inches? I think my approach might be a solid carbide, 5/8 or 16mm 3 flt rougher, neck style with high pressure CTS through the tool. I think 40 to 60 cu"/min MRR would be a safe parameter. I take out over 100 cu"/min with the 1.25" loc 1/2" rougher. Then machine the walls with a 5/8 finisher if you need a nice finish.
    Frank,
    The reason I'm asking is the ATL dealer has just moved again, they have no tooling or machines and no customer machines near us. I have no doubt that it will drill and tap just fine but we do need to cut some deep pockets in all our product lineup. I have asked Gene if he could setup some test cuts with one of his other dealers and shoot some videos but he wants a PO before he'll commit to doing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captdave View Post
    he wants a PO before he'll commit to doing it.
    Damn, some salesman he is.
    Tell him if he doesn't do a test piece you'll go buy another Okuma
    My sales guy happily did a test for us, and we haven't given him anything.

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  18. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captdave View Post
    he wants a PO before he'll commit to doing it.
    And, if it doesn't cut the mustard? WTF kind of salesman is that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captdave View Post
    Anybody have a video of cutting deep (3.0") pockets in 6061?
    Maybe the pockets can be quickly roughed out with something like this on the Brother:

    20160916_142359.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    Maybe the pockets can be quickly roughed out with something like this on the Brother:

    20160916_142359.jpg
    Any idea who the MFG is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captdave View Post
    Any idea who the MFG is?
    Sorry it is Allied Machine.

    Allied - Home

    These are integral with a BT30 holder. They were showing these off at IMTS and tested them on the Brother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captdave View Post
    I have asked Gene if he could setup some test cuts with one of his other dealers and shoot some videos but he wants a PO before he'll commit to doing it.
    Personally I'd tell Gene that he might see a PO when the machine successfully demonstrates that it can do what he says it can do and proves it by cutting your parts, just like any other machine tool builder would do. (That just irks me............. and is not the way I've seen Yamazen work with customers in the past.)

  24. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captdave View Post
    Anybody have a video of cutting deep (3.0") pockets in 6061?
    Pocket configuration, corner radius, would factor. Roughing with drills helps, for sure.

    I don't have any videos right now, but I use a 3/4 3fl hss em, taking 1.5" deep. Arcing in to the side of 6061 plate, cutting a 2.68" radius, deepest radial depth is .175, arcing back out to zero radial depth, then go 3" deep, and repeat. I do this on a standard S500, using the shortest Mari-Tools 3/4" holder. I do a rough and finish pass, then a spring pass. I'm likely going to add a roughing 3 fl, and just use the regular 3 fl to finish, so the finisher will last longer, and the speed of the tool changer means I won't lose enough time to matter. A (specialized for aluminum) carbide cutter would be stiffer, likely better.
    (hope the written description helps)
    The 30 taper has been a lot less of a limitation than I thought it would be.
    I replaced a late 90's f-2 gearbox machine with an S700 hi-torque dual contact. It has more beans than the standard s500 standard, of course.
    Good lead-ins, and decent HSM paths, make these machines shine. They are about efficiency, IMHO.
    And yes, I'm very fortunate to have BrotherFrank and the local Yamazen guys for support.

    Another thing - I know some of you guys are likely better at some of this stuff than me. I'll tell you what I do with what I have, but I know there are some really amazing and talented people on this forum.
    Last edited by eaglemike; 03-14-2018 at 08:20 AM. Reason: clarity

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  26. #59
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    Here are a couple of end mills that look like they would be good for deeper pockets in Aluminum :
    Product Details

    Helical Solutions - High Performance Carbide Cutting Tools

    The Helical looks interesting with the coolant holes in the flutes. Anyone else know of good end mills for aluminum with Coolant Thru capability?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    Here are a couple of end mills that look like they would be good for deeper pockets in Aluminum :
    Product Details

    Helical Solutions - High Performance Carbide Cutting Tools

    The Helical looks interesting with the coolant holes in the flutes. Anyone else know of good end mills for aluminum with Coolant Thru capability?
    The Helical is nice, but a gashed rougher will be more optimal in this scenario to help with overall chip management at this amount of material removal. The SwiftCarb is an excellent choice.

    If you want coolant through flutes, the Emuge Rougher/Coolant is an option. Better yet, they do a unicorn blood coating version for the high silicone aluminums (which makes it look real trippy):

    Rougher / Coolant | Emuge Corporation


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