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Brother S500x1 subplate suggestions/thickness.................

david n

Diamond
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Location
Pillager, MN
You guys who run a subplate on your Speedio............what are ye usin'? Looks like I may need something. Plus I'd like to hang the plate out beyond the table to keep the 4th outa the way.Suggestions? I've never run a subplate on any machine I own. I like a bare table...especially with always swapping vises and fixtures..................
 
I have a 3" chunk of Mic-6 that covers about half the table, slightly off-center and lets the 4th axis sit on one side and the tailstock for the 4th on the other side of it. I built modular fixturing that lets me drop a vise onto the sub plate or whatever else I want. It works well... takes away any concerns with tool length and lets me run short holders (SK, shrink and MariTool side locks).
 
I have a 2 inch thick plate on my S700x1. It hangs over both sides of Y axis about an inch I think.
It hangs over the right hand side a couple inches and way the hell off the left side where the rotary sits.
It puts the rotary face about 1/2" from max X negative travel.
The plate has a grid of tapped holes.
I don't use those much tho, I have Orange vises so right into that 2" plate I have Orange Vise receivers.
Also I am a fan of SpeedLoc Fixturing System - mPower
I have a pattern of those receivers also on the plate and can hot swap plates with a electric rattle gun in about 15 seconds without rushing.

I use those for custom fixtures, 6 inch single station kurt vise, hell even the Fadal VH65 is held on a quick change plate on that machine.

I really like those.
 
I put my vises up on blocks. I'm not crazy about the idea of trapping coolant between the plate and table for years. It's cheap and easy too. I bought long bolts so the bolts go right through the holes into the 't' nuts. Works good plus easy to move etc. that’s a kurt dx6.

File_000.jpg
 
IMG_20210414_151911670.jpg

This is what we set up, it's 2" 6061. I don't raise the vise, the height isn't an issue very often and we use a lot of pallets on the Orange vise.

We put an Orange ZPS on the face of the 4th, and so far it's been working out well.
 
I guess it just depends on the work. I use jaws mostly and it was often an issue right from the start. It’s not an issue in my old Brother though those vises are on the table.
 
I use Orange vises and the shortest tools I run can reach the top of the vises so I haven't found the need for risers. Occasionally I'll have to set a tool up to stick out a little more, but it's nice the be able to swing around a 10" long reamer in the ATC.
 
I guess it just depends on the work. I use jaws mostly and it was often an issue right from the start. It’s not an issue in my old Brother though those vises are on the table.

For sure, absolutely depends on the work. Most of the jaw work we do is 1st op in talon jaws, 2nd in soft jaws, so we're not reaching down between the jaws much. In that picture the jaws were cut to hold 5" diameter 6061, that were getting machined to attach to the Orange ZPS as rotary fixtures.

And to clarify, that overhanging sub plate has been set up for all of two weeks, it may turn out to be a bad idea.
 
And to clarify, that overhanging sub plate has been set up for all of two weeks, it may turn out to be a bad idea.

So what's bad about the overhanging subplate?

I left my orange vises on the table, but I really can't get two double 6'ers and the forth on the table at one time. I need to cantilever the forth over the edge of the table. Has the your 4th sagged or has it moved? My plan is to get a hunk on 1" blanchard ground A36 plate and mount the 4th to that off the table by 4" or so...............
 
So what's bad about the overhanging subplate?

I left my orange vises on the table, but I really can't get two double 6'ers and the forth on the table at one time. I need to cantilever the forth over the edge of the table. Has the your 4th sagged or has it moved? My plan is to get a hunk on 1" blanchard ground A36 plate and mount the 4th to that off the table by 4" or so...............

No problem. We get rotaries out of the travel all the time.

4th and sublate R450 (2).jpg

R650X2 MARTIN TRUNNION TOP.jpg

4th Tombstone.jpg

gripper setup 2.jpg
 
So what's bad about the overhanging subplate?

I left my orange vises on the table, but I really can't get two double 6'ers and the forth on the table at one time. I need to cantilever the forth over the edge of the table. Has the your 4th sagged or has it moved? My plan is to get a hunk on 1" blanchard ground A36 plate and mount the 4th to that off the table by 4" or so...............

I really have to figure this out too.

My plan was to use a 1.5” thick piece of MIC6. Ideally the face of the 4th would be at the X limit, but that’s way out there. I’m tempted to just have the subplate cover the whole table — makes for the longest cantilever base and keeps the vise positions at the same heights.
 
We bought a couple of 4" 6061 plates and I machined them square. Cut male keys in the bottom so that it sits perfectly in line if we were to remove it and slap it back on.
Since most of our Brother work is small and short, a taller sub plate isn't an issue for us.
We don't have a 4th on it, but we do have a Marposs tool setter.
 
We had a plate on our R650 to hold a Nikken 4th that hung off the table by a bit and was 1" thick alloy steel. Probably 4XXX series. On the R series, you need to make up a ton of Z (much more than an S series) so we also had a 6" tall weldment to which we bolted vises and fixtures to get things in the range of normal stickout tools.

Personally I'd use 6061-T6511 before using MIC6 but I'd prefer steel. Then again I've got piles of 8"x2" extrusion drops that I use for fixturing since my main product is made from it and I usually have a 2-9" long remnant off a 12' stick.
 
Remember your weight too. Those Speedio's are not known for their weight carrying ability.
I talked with Andy about mine and I'm fairly close to the weight limit but he didn't think I needed to slow down any feeds or rapids.
If you go steel, that will very possibly over weight the table and should be slowed a bit. Accel and Decel on heavy load can be pretty substantial.

sub plate on a speedio. Weight concerns.
 
Remember your weight too. Those Speedio's are not known for their weight carrying ability.
I talked with Andy about mine and I'm fairly close to the weight limit but he didn't think I needed to slow down any feeds or rapids.
If you go steel, that will very possibly over weight the table and should be slowed a bit. Accel and Decel on heavy load can be pretty substantial.

sub plate on a speedio. Weight concerns.

S500/S700 are rated 550 lbs at full speed with no extra anchoring. Nothing to sneeze at. R650 is rated 440 lbs each pallet (880 total) with the pallet system at full speed.
 
So what's bad about the overhanging subplate?

I left my orange vises on the table, but I really can't get two double 6'ers and the forth on the table at one time. I need to cantilever the forth over the edge of the table. Has the your 4th sagged or has it moved? My plan is to get a hunk on 1" blanchard ground A36 plate and mount the 4th to that off the table by 4" or so...............

Just checked, so far so good, no sag. I do think about the weight, but we're within specs and I haven't turned anything down.

That's the one reason an S700 would be nice, to have two 6" vises and the 4th, but for the price I'm perfectly happy with the 500. The other S500 has two 6's, but no 4th.
 
Just checked, so far so good, no sag. I do think about the weight, but we're within specs and I haven't turned anything down.

That's the one reason an S700 would be nice, to have two 6" vises and the 4th, but for the price I'm perfectly happy with the 500. The other S500 has two 6's, but no 4th.

I just may need another Brother....................:scratchchin:
 
No problem. We get rotaries out of the travel all the time.

I am not a MechE, but I did the math on a 50mm thick 6061 subplate hanging 199mm (the max?) off the side of the Speedio table. Even if you assume the 70 kg weight of the rotary is a point load at the end you get <0.002 mm of deflection. So that's cool. Assuming I can do math :)

Is there a reason to have the face of the rotary table at the X- travel limit, or is it OK to have it set back from there? I think I could move it backwards about 40mm, which would give me some extra clearance if I'm running two vises. Realistically if I have a small centric vise on the rotary, the "negative X" is not going to be a problem, and any jigs I make can just be a little bit thicker. Or am I missing something?
 








 
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