Brother Speedio 4th Axis

LOTT · Sep 16, 2020

Quick (dumb) question for the Brother guys: is it common practice to mount and remove a 4th axis on a Speedio? I know most of these machines are set up for one part for life, and am wondering if there's some unknown quirk that would make this difficult or impractical as compared to other VMC's.

I have an S500 with two Orange vises always mounted. It looks like there would be table space to mount a T-200 on the left side of the table on some kind of single point fixture (Lang Quick-Point?), and it would clear the Orange bodies.

Is this a bad idea? The alternative is waiting till we need another mill and getting an S1000 so there's real estate for a 4th and two vises all the time. But we make our own products and machining is just one of many processes, and we don't need more available spindle time right now. A 4th would cut down on the number of ops for a few parts, and let us run more parts per cycle of other parts on a rotary vise.

Mtndew · Sep 16, 2020

LOTT said:
Is this a bad idea?

Hell no it's not a bad idea.If you ever need the table space you can easily take the 4th off, and put it back on later.

D.D.Machine · Sep 16, 2020

It all has to do with how you use your mills ,,, I us a 4th axis every day and have 2 mills with 4th mounted in them full time ,, But to me buying more machines is cheaper than swapping a 4th in and out all the time ,,

Mike1974 · Sep 16, 2020

D.D.Machine said:
It all has to do with how you use your mills ,,, I us a 4th axis every day and have 2 mills with 4th mounted in them full time ,, But to me buying more machines is cheaper than swapping a 4th in and out all the time ,,

Yea we have one that lives in the machine, even though that handicaps us with only 1 vise (soon to be remedied). Got 2 more VF2 ss on order, one with a HRT160ss rotary with 2 4" baby Kurts, and the other will be set up like new machine with 4 baby Kurts.

Mike1974 · Sep 16, 2020

Might want to consider a quick change plate, bought or home made, so you don't have tram the 4th in every time it gets re-installed.

LOTT · Sep 16, 2020

Mike1974 said:
Might want to consider a quick change plate, bought or home made, so you don't have tram the 4th in every time it gets re-installed.

For sure, if we do go this route there will be a quick change fixture and I'll probably have more questions then. The reason we never pull the Orange's is because we use the pallets and all the offsets are saved. I'd want the same in a 4th.

LOTT · Sep 16, 2020

Mtndew said:
Hell no it's not a bad idea.If you ever need the table space you can easily take the 4th off, and put it back on later.

We definitely need the table space, probably 90% of the time we'll be doing three axis work in the two vises. I know it's common practice on other machines like a Haas VF, but Speedios have some different strengths and limitations that we're still learning.

LOTT · Sep 16, 2020

D.D.Machine said:
It all has to do with how you use your mills ,,, I us a 4th axis every day and have 2 mills with 4th mounted in them full time ,, But to me buying more machines is cheaper than swapping a 4th in and out all the time ,,

If we were strictly a machine shop then buying more machines would be the way to go, and it might still be the smart thing to do. But we're also a welding/fabrication/vacuum molding/injection molding/assembly/etc/etc.. shop; as we grow more machines will be added, but for now we don't need more spindles.

Rick Finsta · Sep 16, 2020

Make a sub plate that lifts the 4th axis and has the Lang 96mm Studs on the bottom and threaded holes to bolt down the 4th on top.

LOTT · Sep 16, 2020

Rick, That's what I was thinking. I know you used to run Speedio's, are there any pitfalls you're aware of to taking a 4th on and off? Beyond the fact that a rotary is going to be heavy and generally obnoxious to move around?

Rick Finsta · Sep 16, 2020

I think on the Yukiwa that we had there was a MIL-SPEC connector that had a cap and it would have been as simple as unplugging it and sticking the cap on the cable. Just make sure you get a similar setup I guess?

EDIT: The Yukiwa also had a lift point and ring that would have made things easy.

DavidScott · Sep 16, 2020

You have to unplug or plug in the 4th with the power OFF, same with the dummy cap that goes in place of the 4th axis plug. No, there is no issue with swapping the 4th in and out other than don't drop it.

BROTHERFRANK · Sep 16, 2020

Can you do something like this minus the tombstone and just leave it on all the time? Most rotaries (Yukiwa, Nikken, Sankyo ...) offered for the Brother machines have electrical connectors to make them 'quick' disconnect. There is about 9" of space on the sides of the table where you can hang jigs etc. off the table.

check with your local support regarding rotary options and electrical connections. Yukiwa and Nikken both have nice compact rotaries available usually in stock in USA.

BROTHERFRANK · Sep 16, 2020

DavidScott said:
You have to unplug or plug in the 4th with the power OFF, same with the dummy cap that goes in place of the 4th axis plug. No, there is no issue with swapping the 4th in and out other than don't drop it.

there is a little more to it with the Speedios. You have to turn the axis off in the machine parameters and because of the Absolute encoders you have to change the 'daisy chain' wiring on the drive if I'm not mistaken.

DavidScott · Sep 16, 2020

BROTHERFRANK said:
there is a little more to it with the Speedios. You have to turn the axis off in the machine parameters and because of the Absolute encoders you have to change the 'daisy chain' wiring on the drive if I'm not mistaken.

Ow, really? How long does that take, roughly?

Another way to deal with the rotary is to just hang it in the corner of the enclosure out of the way. This way you don't have to deal with any wiring. I have to do it since I didn't get a dummy plug with my used machine so I can't unplug the 4th without the machine alarming out. I have been doing this for over 6 years now and have grown to like it. It does save time swapping the 4th.

wheelieking71 · Sep 16, 2020

DavidScott said:
Another way to deal with the rotary is to just hang it in the corner of the enclosure out of the way. This way you don't have to deal with any wiring. I have to do it since I didn't get a dummy plug with my used machine so I can't unplug the 4th without the machine alarming out. I have been doing this for over 6 years now and have grown to like it. It does save time swapping the 4th.

View attachment 299563

Zahnrad Kopf does the same thing. He loves that set-up.

BROTHERFRANK · Sep 16, 2020

DavidScott said:
Ow, really? How long does that take, roughly?

Another way to deal with the rotary is to just hang it in the corner of the enclosure out of the way. This way you don't have to deal with any wiring. I have to do it since I didn't get a dummy plug with my used machine so I can't unplug the 4th without the machine alarming out. I have been doing this for over 6 years now and have grown to like it. It does save time swapping the 4th.

View attachment 299563

That gets it done too! Depending how often you take the rotary on and off, I imagine you could get pretty proficient at changing the parameter and wiring on the Brother. Maybe a 10 minute procedure with practice.

LOTT · Sep 17, 2020

Awesome info. That part about turning off parameters each time is what I wanted to dig up, the "Unknown unknowns" of the Speedio world. It's a great machine and perfect for our application, but there's some funny quirks.

Brother Frank, we use a large vacuum table mounted as a pallet on one of the Orange vises, and have a tool setter on the other side, so I don't think we could leave the rotary on there all the time.

David, we have an indexer on another machine that I redneck wired in and we do something similar. Not sure I want to do that here...

Again, thanks for the feedback, and if anybody else has ideas I'm all ears.

Rick Finsta · Sep 17, 2020

Funny I knew about the parameter but not the wiring change. We had an ex-Yamazen guy in the shop so it took him moments to do it and I didn't ever see him open the back cabinet.

BROTHERFRANK · Sep 17, 2020

OK. Here's another way I've seen it done. Check out the side panel on the second machine on the left:

Notice the notch cut in the side panel near the top with some edge guard around it. Pull the panel, pull the rotary, set it on a cart, shelf, or pallet, leave it plugged in. To re-install. pull the panel, put rotary on your table, re-install the side panel feeding the cable through the notch...

Brother Speedio 4th Axis

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