Brother Speedio, Haas DM/DT Series and Fanuc Robo Drills - Compare and contrast! - Page 5
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    Quote Originally Posted by riabma77 View Post
    IMO, the most important is to be honest with yourself about what you need. Maybe you don't need a Brother, Fanuc, or a Haas DT/DM. Maybe a humble MiniMill will make the job at a fraction of the cost.

    I'd rather to think what I need today, more than what I may do in the future.
    A super mini-mill would probably do what I need, however once you add a few of the bits I do need, the price is very comparable. So around $50k, which would you get, a Robodrill or a Super Mini Mill?

    Also I've read that the coolant tank isn't removable in the Mini-Mill, same goes for the Super? I can't imagine being able to keep that thing clean or not stinking without having good access to it. I don't think I'd need a chip auger, however you never know, and being able to add things later like that to improve automation or more hands-off machining to me is worth the price. Absolute 100% machine up-time though isn't that big of a deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droshi View Post
    A super mini-mill would probably do what I need, however once you add a few of the bits I do need, the price is very comparable. So around $50k, which would you get, a Robodrill or a Super Mini Mill?

    Also I've read that the coolant tank isn't removable in the Mini-Mill, same goes for the Super? I can't imagine being able to keep that thing clean or not stinking without having good access to it. I don't think I'd need a chip auger, however you never know, and being able to add things later like that to improve automation or more hands-off machining to me is worth the price. Absolute 100% machine up-time though isn't that big of a deal.
    I had a Minimill2 and a Super MM. The chip handling and cleaning the tank was a royal PITA. They did make a lot of parts for me. Life is just a lot easier with either the Robo or the Brother. I had the Coldfire II control on both of them. I didn't get the Eco Robo quoted, just a regular. The Brother 500 I got had a few more features and is faster. (I also bought more Brother mills and before and after that) If you can find a deal - think upcoming IMTS or an in-stock Brother 500 on a floor somewhere, you might be able to get a deal. Of course, this might also be true for Fanuc (IMHO odds are lower). When the Fanuc was quoted, it was totally list price. Phone tech support for Methods/Fanux was pretty decent, but not as good as Brother. Every time I run one of my Brothers, I'm appreciative of the quality.

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  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by droshi View Post
    A super mini-mill would probably do what I need, however once you add a few of the bits I do need, the price is very comparable. So around $50k, which would you get, a Robodrill or a Super Mini Mill?

    Also I've read that the coolant tank isn't removable in the Mini-Mill, same goes for the Super? I can't imagine being able to keep that thing clean or not stinking without having good access to it. I don't think I'd need a chip auger, however you never know, and being able to add things later like that to improve automation or more hands-off machining to me is worth the price. Absolute 100% machine up-time though isn't that big of a deal.
    My comment was for a Mini with basic options. If you put in the game a Super with some options, of course I will go with the Fanuc or the Brother.

    Before the Brother, I had a MiniMill, and cleaning the tank was really was long and tedious. Also, coolant flow was horrible. Chips just weren't going anywhere. Nothing compared to the Brother.

    Don't underestimate the auger. I wish I considered it when I bough the Brother. My cycle times were reduced to half or more with the Speedio. I'm producing the double of parts, and also double of chips... The basket in the top of the coolant tanks fills really fast, specially with plastic.

    Thinking in the future to add the conveyor to the machine.

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    Thanks good info on the Mini Mills, that's what took them out of my mind mostly. Unless they were a LOT cheaper it just doesn't make sense to me. I do make some small and very intricate parts, so tiny end-mills are needed at times, it's what makes me want a minimum of a 10k spindle, 25k would be ideal, but it won't be in the budget for a long while.

    Another option might be a BT30 spindle speeder, I don't know if I can get one with a good total-runout. I've heard they aren't that great of an option, but even with a 10k spindle I may try one out anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droshi View Post
    Thanks good info on the Mini Mills, that's what took them out of my mind mostly. Unless they were a LOT cheaper it just doesn't make sense to eta;me. I do make some small and very intricate parts, so tiny end-mills are needed at times, it's what makes me want a minimum of a 10k spindle, 25k would be ideal, but it won't be in the budget for a long while.

    Another option might be a BT30 spindle speeder, I don't know if I can get one with a good total-runout. I've heard they aren't that great of an option, but even with a 10k spindle I may try one out anyway.
    Just for fun, check with brother on how much it would cost to upgrade later, vs buying 27k right with the machine. Sometimes the higher speed spindles are stocked with other options, so you might find one in stock, or can order one configured the way you want. It's my understanding the spindles and motors are pretty easy to swap, and pricing isn't bad. I asked BrotherFranks when I bought a machine. He said there would be the price of the spindle, perhaps/likely some exchange for the old one since not run if installed new on a stock machine, and the labor to swap. If all done during install while they guy is there, would be the best bet - maybe - for you. BUT - talk with your local Yamazen guy. I'm going by memory, and might be wrong, things might have changed, etc. I've found Frank and Andy to be most reasonable at trying to get me what I need for my success. Haven't had another company actually listen and work with me on options, without pressure, etc. Nice experience.

    ETA: I bought all mine with 10k spindles. They work pretty fine for my work, and the steel bearings take a hard smack better then ceramic IMHO. The high-torque mdoels are often stock with dual contact spindles, and other options like through-spindle coolant preparation, cover, auto-lube etc. The high toque models also have larger spindle bearings. So it's faster to order a stocked machine, but it may not be configured exactly as you prefer. I've owned 1 robo-drill, and currently own 4 Brother mills. IMO the Brother are easier to program and setup since I'm not a life-long fanuc guy, and they seem to be easier to maintain. I've been amazed at how much more product I've been able to make using the Brother machines, compared to the Haas's and Robo I had before.

    Edit again - See BrotherFrank's post below about the spindle castings. Also ask about torque spec's for each spindle. It's my understanding the 16K has the lowest torque.

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    Quote Originally Posted by riabma77 View Post
    My comment was for a Mini with basic options. If you put in the game a Super with some options, of course I will go with the Fanuc or the Brother.

    Before the Brother, I had a MiniMill, and cleaning the tank was really was long and tedious. Also, coolant flow was horrible. Chips just weren't going anywhere. Nothing compared to the Brother.

    Don't underestimate the auger. I wish I considered it when I bough the Brother. My cycle times were reduced to half or more with the Speedio. I'm producing the double of parts, and also double of chips... The basket in the top of the coolant tanks fills really fast, specially with plastic.

    Thinking in the future to add the conveyor to the machine.
    First world problems,
    Glad production is up! Amazing isn't it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droshi View Post
    Thanks good info on the Mini Mills, that's what took them out of my mind mostly. Unless they were a LOT cheaper it just doesn't make sense to me. I do make some small and very intricate parts, so tiny end-mills are needed at times, it's what makes me want a minimum of a 10k spindle, 25k would be ideal, but it won't be in the budget for a long while.

    Another option might be a BT30 spindle speeder, I don't know if I can get one with a good total-runout. I've heard they aren't that great of an option, but even with a 10k spindle I may try one out anyway.
    Reading through an old thread, it seems that the mill will not see heavy usage. Is that true?

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    Quote Originally Posted by riabma77 View Post
    The basket in the top of the coolant tanks fills really fast, specially with plastic.
    Yes, definitely. FWIW, I did this to mine:

    chip-pan-extension.jpg

    While running a job, I'll occasionally go back and stack the chips up in the middle, up against the extension, then the trough discharge areas can refill. I can get like 3x as many chips in the bin before having to empty it. For me, it is important the the chips have some time to drain before removing, since my recycler is pretty picky about wet chips. The extension gives a lot more vertical room to stack chips instead of just sitting in the bottom of the pan staying wet.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    Yes, definitely. FWIW, I did this to mine:

    chip-pan-extension.jpg

    While running a job, I'll occasionally go back and stack the chips up in the middle, up against the extension, then the trough discharge areas can refill. I can get like 3x as many chips in the bin before having to empty it. For me, it is important the the chips have some time to drain before removing, since my recycler is pretty picky about wet chips. The extension gives a lot more vertical room to stack chips instead of just sitting in the bottom of the pan staying wet.

    Regards.

    Mike
    Yuppers, do the same.
    The coolant flow on the Brother is really nice. Maybe 5 times better than Haas, or more. With the Brother setup, I seldom need to worry about chips on the 500 or 700. When we are fulling the 450's in full production, we have to pay more attention. The chip flow isn't quite as good due the the machine design. The chip flow is down the middle, rather then the sides as one the standard machines. The auxiliary flush helps a lot - but we make more chips with the rotating table. I never realized how big a difference this would make for my work. Production more than makes up for a couple of minutes on chips.

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    There are three unique spindle castings for Speedio S300, S500 and S700: 10k High Torque, 27k, and 10k standard/16k. only 16k and 10k standard spindles are interchangeable. The 10k standard spindles are great and like all Brother spindles can be run at max rpm all day long. To go from 10k standard to 16k, spindle cartridge and spindle motor need to be swapped. Something that Brother users find as a nice surprise is how smooth the spindles run and how great the run out is. This really helps with the small tools, finishes and tool life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    Reading through an old thread, it seems that the mill will not see heavy usage. Is that true?
    Compared to what anyone here would consider heavy usage, no, for me it would likely never be that heavy. I currently make one product and will be making several more. The main is all 304 stainless and not so small parts, others will be fairly small and intricate, mostly tool steel. Because of the size, I don't think I'd ever need a chip conveyor/auger but I didn't think a slant bed lathe was really needed for me and it's turned out to be a great benefit to be able to clear chips from the pan when the machine is running on what I call a large production run of only 50 parts. Other parts hardly make any chips so it's hard to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droshi View Post
    Compared to what anyone here would consider heavy usage, no, for me it would likely never be that heavy. I currently make one product and will be making several more. The main is all 304 stainless and not so small parts, others will be fairly small and intricate, mostly tool steel. Because of the size, I don't think I'd ever need a chip conveyor/auger but I didn't think a slant bed lathe was really needed for me and it's turned out to be a great benefit to be able to clear chips from the pan when the machine is running on what I call a large production run of only 50 parts. Other parts hardly make any chips so it's hard to say.
    I was just wondering if price is such a factor, would used be a better option. DSTRYR has a couple Brother S-2A's for sale. Well used but well taken care of as well. A machine with support for under $20k or so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglemike View Post
    First world problems,
    Glad production is up! Amazing isn't it.
    Yeap! Those machines are a box of surprises!Brother Speedio, Haas DM/DT Series and Fanuc Robo Drills - Compare and contrast!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2outof3 View Post
    I was just wondering if price is such a factor, would used be a better option. DSTRYR has a couple Brother S-2A's for sale. Well used but well taken care of as well. A machine with support for under $20k or so.
    The real answer about used is that I just don't know enough to make a good purchase. If I could see a machine local and run a program on it to do a quick test, it might be a possibility. But otherwise I do feel like I'd just have to sink more cash to get what I need or want long term.

    My current lathe is working really well, but the biggest problem is just more my parts and having to machine both sides of them and just the hassle of loading/unloading so many times. I'm not really an efficient operator, so in a hot garage I get tired pretty fast haha! If I could load up a machine and it run several parts, it would be such an amazing thing I'd be willing to pay more for it.

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    I bet you could find a nice used Brother S2Dn for $50k and 1) still enjoy a huge boost in capacity and 2) have an extra $50k available for tooling, a new CAM post, and, if needed, service/support. A new spindle is $5k. Is Yamazen close? If you’re not sure how to go about inspecting a used machine there are plenty of threads on that in this forum or you could continue in this current thread asking for help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droshi View Post
    Thanks good info on the Mini Mills, that's what took them out of my mind mostly. Unless they were a LOT cheaper it just doesn't make sense to me. I do make some small and very intricate parts, so tiny end-mills are needed at times, it's what makes me want a minimum of a 10k spindle, 25k would be ideal, but it won't be in the budget for a long while.

    Another option might be a BT30 spindle speeder, I don't know if I can get one with a good total-runout. I've heard they aren't that great of an option, but even with a 10k spindle I may try one out anyway.
    Here is an example about the MiniMill:

    1584_resized.jpg

    If you get the Brother, be sure to have the chip shower. It's extremely effective, keeping the machine clean of chips, saving you a lot of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finegrain View Post
    Yes, definitely. FWIW, I did this to mine:

    chip-pan-extension.jpg

    While running a job, I'll occasionally go back and stack the chips up in the middle, up against the extension, then the trough discharge areas can refill. I can get like 3x as many chips in the bin before having to empty it. For me, it is important the the chips have some time to drain before removing, since my recycler is pretty picky about wet chips. The extension gives a lot more vertical room to stack chips instead of just sitting in the bottom of the pan staying wet.

    Regards.

    Mike
    It's a very good idea. Plastic chips don't slide down when they're wet?

    This little shovel, and a pair gloves matching Brother's blue are my best friends per now :

    0813180734_resized.jpg

    I'm going thru also a lot of coolant. Not sure if it's evaporation, or the plastic chips. Thinking to install behind the machine a DI/RO system, so it will be much easier to refill the tank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Originally posted by BROTHERFRANK in the "Datron Thread".



    With 27K RPM spindle thought this was quite interesting.

    [Not all molds are high tolerance (positionally + advanced thermal compensation ) but require decent surface finishes + speed for interminably long tool paths. ] ?

    __________________________________________________ __________________________


    * Datron thread Datron


    interminably

    New werd for me.
    Have seen it pop up 2wice in the last cpl of days.

    I take this to mean for long surfacing apps where you don't want to change tools 1/2 way - or what?


    -------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox


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