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Brother Speedio S300X1
- Thread starter drcoelho
- Start date
- Replies 40
- Views 18,016
DethloffMfg
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2018
- Location
- Portland, OR
I recently got an S500 which is essentially the same exact machine with more travel. The S300/500/700 use the same castings and everything else as far as I can tell.
They are 30 taper machines so you won’t be able to do any YouTube bury-the-tool-and-go kind of machining, but otherwise, these machines are freaking awesome. They do what you tell them, instantly, exactly how you tell them to. I haven’t had any BS or hair-pulling at all with my machine. These things are actually wild fast when milling, especially with aluminum, you just have to take light cuts.
Two parts I have run as good examples. One part was a 32-pound block of 1018 cold roll; machined with 3/8” end mills I removed over 28-pounds from the block. A 3/8” end mill, 7/8” length of cut, running 250ipm at .020” stepover at 10k rpm. Not fast but it got it done reliably.
Some parts I ran this week were 7075 aluminum, under 2”x2”x.375”. Machine went from finishing end mill, to drill for M3, to drill for M10, to 1/4” end mill to interpolate the larger bore bigger for an M10, then a chamfer tool for the M3 hole, then a chamfer for the M10 hole, then form tap the M3, then form tap M10, then change to roughing end mill. It did every one of the above tool changes, plus a broken tool detection for every single tool, in 56 seconds.
I rough aluminum with 3/8” end mills at 1”doc, .08” woc, 350ipm at 10k rpm
They’re fast and very user friendly to run. The support from Yamazen West has been outstanding. I almost bought a Haas and never had a warm or fuzzy feeling from Selway. I do have that good feeling from Yamazen.
They are 30 taper machines so you won’t be able to do any YouTube bury-the-tool-and-go kind of machining, but otherwise, these machines are freaking awesome. They do what you tell them, instantly, exactly how you tell them to. I haven’t had any BS or hair-pulling at all with my machine. These things are actually wild fast when milling, especially with aluminum, you just have to take light cuts.
Two parts I have run as good examples. One part was a 32-pound block of 1018 cold roll; machined with 3/8” end mills I removed over 28-pounds from the block. A 3/8” end mill, 7/8” length of cut, running 250ipm at .020” stepover at 10k rpm. Not fast but it got it done reliably.
Some parts I ran this week were 7075 aluminum, under 2”x2”x.375”. Machine went from finishing end mill, to drill for M3, to drill for M10, to 1/4” end mill to interpolate the larger bore bigger for an M10, then a chamfer tool for the M3 hole, then a chamfer for the M10 hole, then form tap the M3, then form tap M10, then change to roughing end mill. It did every one of the above tool changes, plus a broken tool detection for every single tool, in 56 seconds.
I rough aluminum with 3/8” end mills at 1”doc, .08” woc, 350ipm at 10k rpm
They’re fast and very user friendly to run. The support from Yamazen West has been outstanding. I almost bought a Haas and never had a warm or fuzzy feeling from Selway. I do have that good feeling from Yamazen.
gkoenig
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
- Location
- Portland, OR
My daily driver is an S700, but I have a gig helping set up a brace of S300s and have a few days working inside of them...
Be aware that these are *tight* machines. They are designed to be crammed on factory floors by the dozen, and for making very small parts, in very intensely optimized setups. This is not a "fuck around" machine for throwing a bunch of different work at because space is so limited (travels, and workholding, and general use). I might be over dramatizing things because the ones I'm working on have the giant Yukiwa direct drive tables in them and a damn nice trunnion setup, but it really is small.
It is, however, a full blood Speedio - same castings, spindle, control, features of the bigger ones. In fact, it is a hair faster because the servos aren't having to throw around as much table weight (the S300 and S500 share the same table). Unless you are 100% committed to small parts on a rotary, I would not put a 4th axis on it because once you do, it dominates the machine without any extra table space to speak of. You could tough it out with a Lang/5th axis setup and swap stuff around, but it is going to be kinda miserable.
Honestly, the thing is that an S300 is a rare bird, and Yamazen only brought them in as special orders until recently. You'll pay *less* for an S500, and gain a lot more overall flexibility and breathing room. I would take the machine cost delta and throw it into whatever rigging bullshit you would need to do to get an S500 in that space (call a carpenter!).
Be aware that these are *tight* machines. They are designed to be crammed on factory floors by the dozen, and for making very small parts, in very intensely optimized setups. This is not a "fuck around" machine for throwing a bunch of different work at because space is so limited (travels, and workholding, and general use). I might be over dramatizing things because the ones I'm working on have the giant Yukiwa direct drive tables in them and a damn nice trunnion setup, but it really is small.
It is, however, a full blood Speedio - same castings, spindle, control, features of the bigger ones. In fact, it is a hair faster because the servos aren't having to throw around as much table weight (the S300 and S500 share the same table). Unless you are 100% committed to small parts on a rotary, I would not put a 4th axis on it because once you do, it dominates the machine without any extra table space to speak of. You could tough it out with a Lang/5th axis setup and swap stuff around, but it is going to be kinda miserable.
Honestly, the thing is that an S300 is a rare bird, and Yamazen only brought them in as special orders until recently. You'll pay *less* for an S500, and gain a lot more overall flexibility and breathing room. I would take the machine cost delta and throw it into whatever rigging bullshit you would need to do to get an S500 in that space (call a carpenter!).
BROTHERFRANK
Stainless
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2013
- Location
- SoCal
drcoelho, your application could be the exact reason why Yamazen stocks the S300 now. They have been available for many years and there has been many inquiries for this size machine. If it fits your space and part size envelope it could be a great set up for you. It is stocked with 16k rpm spindle that will run all day long and take a nice cut (80 cu"/min in 6061 with 1/2" rougher), 21 tools, Coolant Through Spindle Interface, powerful user-friendly control and great local support and service. 4th even 5th axis ready with many compact rotary options available. As others have said, it is essentially a S500 or S700 with a shorter X axis ball screw and more compact sheetmetal. S700 has bigger table. Brother (and Yamazen) has a 34 year track record with these compact machining centers and over 150,000 installations worldwide. Very Solid. Hope this helps!
Tell me more...
I've been pretty happy running 123 ipm at 6700 rpm with 7/8 doc and .0375 stepover, but wouldn't complain at faster if the tools hold up. What tools are you using?
Brother machines are the best invention after wheat beer.
It's possible to find another space? What will be a bigger asset for your company, the space or the machine? IMHO you should find a space that will fit the machine, instead a machine that with fit the space.
The S300 it's a cute machine, but maybe the S500 will give you room to grow (if the cost is very similar). I was targeting for a S500 but I ended with the S700 because the cost was almost the same.
It's possible to find another space? What will be a bigger asset for your company, the space or the machine? IMHO you should find a space that will fit the machine, instead a machine that with fit the space.
The S300 it's a cute machine, but maybe the S500 will give you room to grow (if the cost is very similar). I was targeting for a S500 but I ended with the S700 because the cost was almost the same.
DethloffMfg
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2018
- Location
- Portland, OR
Off the shelf IMCO M924 in a Maritool stubby sidelock. I think we could have pushed it with more stepover as well but it was just singing and I already hated how I laid the parts out and vowed to never run 4 parts from a 32 pound block again
DethloffMfg
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2018
- Location
- Portland, OR
I do like my S500. The floor space it uses is minimal and my shop is tiny. S700's have more room to fool around or fit a big trunnion, but if you aren't trying to stack a ton of parts on the table and walk away, or if you don't have big parts that need the 700's size, then the 500 is a good pick. The 300 basically gives you the working area of one vise. That would probably do most parts, but I agree with Greg, it would be better to make a Wiley Coyote hole through the nearest wall and get a bigger machine in there.
My S500 was far cheaper than comparable S700's because my model is the 14-tool base model with only a few options. Most of the 500's and all 700's come with CTS-prep (including interior washdown and a larger coolant tank) and a 21-tool magazine. Those machines are a definite step up.
My S500 was far cheaper than comparable S700's because my model is the 14-tool base model with only a few options. Most of the 500's and all 700's come with CTS-prep (including interior washdown and a larger coolant tank) and a 21-tool magazine. Those machines are a definite step up.
wheelieking71
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2013
- Location
- Gilbert, AZ
Tell me more as well!
I am getting about 40hrs from a 3/8" SGS S-carb at much more conservative parameters. (14k, 190ipm, .880axial, .050radial)
DethloffMfg
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2018
- Location
- Portland, OR
Wheelie are you asking about the aluminum milling or steel? The numbers you quoted are for steel. For aluminum I'm using a Helical 35-degree chipbreaking rougher in a Lyndex sidelock that's kind of long. Just got some more Maritool stubbies in to swap it over. 3/8" tool cutting 1" deep, 350ipm at .08" stepover and 10K rpm. I haven't found the failure point yet, I just kept going up and stopped at 350ipm. Once I swap the tools to the stubby sidelock I'll see if we can do more! It's fun being able to push this thing with only a 10k spindle.
P.S. I ran production on 7075 parts this week with Helical's 40-degree finisher with the wiper flat grind in a hydraulic holder, and the floor finish is amazing. The bright dip etch for anodize completely removed tooling marks and all that's there is the material grain. Loving the Helical stuff.
wheelieking71
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2013
- Location
- Gilbert, AZ
gkoenig
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
- Location
- Portland, OR
Helical's 45 degree finishers with the wiper flats and a little corner radius does amazing things for floor finishes. The datum flats on these are all from a Sandvik Century with PCD, but the interiors are all 3/16 in a Maritool side lock. A quick bright dip in anodizing knocks down the swirls and leaves raw material grain.
If I was really good at this, I would align the material grain with the engraved text on the knob...
(Fun fact, the longest run-time of those 3 SKUs is the one on the left, at 5 minutes for both components, from raw stock)
Can I ask you how you measure the 40 hours? A whole week and one shift per day?
It seems a few low to me. I don't do production, so I don't have an accurate way to measure how often I replace the end mills. But they stay sometimes for months in the tool holder. I can check and share later cutting parameters.
And the end mills aren't fancy at all. Uncoated 3 flutes finishers from MariTool. I'm surprised not hearing more about them over here(like Imco, Destiny, etc...). I think they're great tools.
In fact, I believe that tool life increased with the Brother, versus the prior Haas, but the tool holders are also better.
Not sure how wheelie does it, but I set my tool life sometimes to get an idea of how long a tool lasts. Then I reset to that given number to keep an eye on the tool.
Nerdlinger
Stainless
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2013
- Location
- Chicago, IL
I always thought nice machines, like Brothers, could be overkill for “prototype work.” Like...who cares if it’s that much faster than a cheaper altenative if you’re only making a couple widgets and then moving in to the next.
That being said, on the topic of Brother performance, I am smitten with the Brothers I have. A recent part this forum helped me with yielded the following:
Draw a 1.5” diameter circle and then a .875” x 1.375” rectangle in it. I am keeping the rectangle and machining away the rest, 1.25” deep in 4140 with a 1/2” SGS 6-flute solid carbide em, 6,900 RPM, I think 5% step-over, 280ish ipm, air blast only. Based on experience, I have the tool life set to 1,000 f-ing pcs! Oh yeah, that includes both a semi-finish and finish pass with the same tool! In my world, at least, that’s pretty damn good for one cutter. So yeah....I like those machines!
That being said, on the topic of Brother performance, I am smitten with the Brothers I have. A recent part this forum helped me with yielded the following:
Draw a 1.5” diameter circle and then a .875” x 1.375” rectangle in it. I am keeping the rectangle and machining away the rest, 1.25” deep in 4140 with a 1/2” SGS 6-flute solid carbide em, 6,900 RPM, I think 5% step-over, 280ish ipm, air blast only. Based on experience, I have the tool life set to 1,000 f-ing pcs! Oh yeah, that includes both a semi-finish and finish pass with the same tool! In my world, at least, that’s pretty damn good for one cutter. So yeah....I like those machines!
DethloffMfg
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2018
- Location
- Portland, OR
That's good to know the 45 did so well on the floor, because the 45-degree tools don't have wiper flats unless you special order them. I was talking with a tech guy at Helical, asking why the 45-degree tool that's great for finishing walls doesn't get the wiper flat that the 40 degree does (especially because the wiper grind strengthens the corners, and it's already a finishing tool!). "huh that's a good idea, I don't know why we don't do that." Haha... So we agreed the 40 degree was better all-round. But I want to see the 45-degree get the wiper grind, it really makes a difference. Even doing some slotting with a 1/4" tool with the wiper grind, the floor finish was just beautiful.
Back to the S300... these machines are awesome. The speeds and accelerations they achieve go a LONG way towards making up for the smaller taper when talking material removal, and nothing can drill and tap as fast as these things.
I know you were looking at the Haas CM-1 as well. That machine seems like all of Haas' worst ideas crammed into one overpriced package. 20-taper toolholding so small the pull stud is integrated into the holder; Weak motors; Fragile high speed spindle (Haas has a reputation regarding their high speed spindles). I think chopping a hole in a wall, buying an S500 and adding a rotary to it is going to come in around the same price as that CM-1 you were spec'ing out.
cosmos_275
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2015
Why not knock out a wall? S500X1 will be a lot less cramped. Can your floor hold 6k?
Might check this one out: TRAK 2op Vertical Machining Center
I'd think it'd have to be considerably less expensive than a Speedio to consider. I have an S500 and it's great.
The truth is that Brother filled a space in the market that nobody was able to beat, in terms of price, performance, reliability and ease to use. You cannot get a better package than the Brother.
In top of that, they are distributed and supported by Yamazen. I cannot stop saying how pleased I'm with them.
In top of that, they are distributed and supported by Yamazen. I cannot stop saying how pleased I'm with them.
I'm definately trending towards the Brother over the Haas/Datron. The biggest issue for me is getting it into my shop factoring in the 3 doorways that are very narrow...looking at some remodelling of the shop to make this work.
I looked at the TRAK 2op and unfortunately it is too tall to fit through my doorways, Brother is better in this regard. Cost isn't really an issue, just size.
