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BT30 ATC Bulova BT400S Mill AKA UGINT Issues

yasnak

Plastic
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
We ran into a little issue with one of our vertical mills and I was wondering if you could help me out. The machine we had a problem with is a Bulova BT400S. There is a cap screw on the side of the Z axis spindle column that worked its was loose, and when the Z axis rapids up to change a tool the head of the cap screw would hit a cover and make a loud noise. We just tightened the cap screw, and after we tightened the cap screw the spindle makes a whining noise when it rotates. So we loosened up the cap screw and made it just a little more than hand tight to keep the spindle from making noise. I guess my question is what does that cap screw do? I looked it up in the book, but the book doesn’t explain what it does. Should this screw be more than just hand tight? I would think that it is going to loosen up over time and back itself out again.

Edit: After machining for a day the screw worked itself loose again. Reaching out to service guys but it seems Bulova Machinery no longer exists. The documentation we have for this machine isn't good.

Photos: Bulova BT4S Cap Screw Loosening - Album on Imgur
 
Is that the offending screw? Looks to me like a screw that's been put into a lifting hole as a plug. Why else would it be finger tight? Any chance you could screw an Eye bolt into that???

Surely that's a cast in Lug for lifting? Column only, or there will be lugs or bar holes in the base, for a combined lift.

4N6pBee.jpg
 
Its also possible that its a transport bracket that bears on the screw, housing, or counterweight. Given its loose, why not pull it out and see what it bares on.
 
We also thought it was some sort of shipping bracket at first but it definitely is not. Imgur: The magic of the Internet Picture of drawing attached. It is the pivot point to the arm that releases the pullstud during tool change. It has some sort of shims but we cannot tell because this is the only drawing we have of this machine. We have reached out to essentially every dealer/service dept. we can for any information related to this. We are waiting for response but until then the machine is down.
 
We also thought it was some sort of shipping bracket at first but it definitely is not. Imgur: The magic of the Internet Picture of drawing attached. It is the pivot point to the arm that releases the pullstud during tool change. It has some sort of shims but we cannot tell because this is the only drawing we have of this machine. We have reached out to essentially every dealer/service dept. we can for any information related to this. We are waiting for response but until then the machine is down.

I was trying to find the internals for Robodrill / Curtis Wright original concept … And (temporarily) gave up.

The thing that caught my eye is what appears to be a mini river / trail of dissolved goethite corrosion products that appear to make trail out of that Tapered washer, bushing , / (whatever it is) cap screw part. [looks like something that should be lubricated is not and has failed somehow ? i.e. a seal may have failed also. ].

On some machines the inside of the castings are not finished / sprayed with a sealer just left to actively corrode very slowly. Red goethite indicates active (higher rate) corrosion whereas black magnetite ferrous corrosion products indicates slower corrosion processes that also have a surface passivating effect.


From the picture (it's only picture can't really tell) they may have used a bronze type of bushing for the pivot bearing, (depending on which bronze) they used and the composition of the spindle tool changer lifting arm there could be active corrosion in how that assembly seats. [Galvanic corrosion where key components are left "Anodic" to the rest of the machine... In simple terms something could be behaving as a sacrificial anode (like on a boat).].

@Yasnak is there a maintenance manual to show you where particular points have to be lubricated / inclusion of grease nipples etc. Or maybe they used an oil impregnated sleeve type bearing where they thought lubrication might not be necessary?


Maybe reach out to Robodrill or Brother Speedio service people for any procedures to fix that or tackle that... ?

I.e. how to pull the machine apart, have it serviced; the machine is only a few years old right ?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Daniel Jend of Jend Machinery in Colorado was aiming to sell Bulova but I see also they are not on his "Books" anymore. He sells good machines like OKK too.

I went through some of their literature (at the time) … They bill themselves as "Micro machines" but there really wasn't anything I could find that would make them any more precise or accurate than a Robodrill.


I think around the IMTS before … (Not 2018/2016 ) 2outof3 was kinda pouring scorn on these machines and kinda predicted that these guys would go "Belly up/Tits up"/Tank... He is usually given to smothering things in the nest before they can gain traction (which in business is not a bad way to go if you are in very competitive sectors and slim margins) , but to his credit he may have "Called it".
 
We just tightened the cap screw, and after we tightened the cap screw the spindle makes a whining noise when it rotates.

Sounds a lot like when you tightened the screw down you pushed the fingers over and it was rubbing on the drawbar. If you pull off some of the covers from the turret you should be able to see into the drawbar/motor coupling and watch it. Is there another screw on the other side of the headstock? I'd guess that there is one or more washers holding the side to side position of the arm that have worn down. Grab a ladder to look down inside the headstock to see what's there and give the arm a wiggle.
 
Sounds a lot like when you tightened the screw down you pushed the fingers over and it was rubbing on the drawbar. If you pull off some of the covers from the turret you should be able to see into the drawbar/motor coupling and watch it. Is there another screw on the other side of the headstock? I'd guess that there is one or more washers holding the side to side position of the arm that have worn down. Grab a ladder to look down inside the headstock to see what's there and give the arm a wiggle.

I'll get more detailed photos of this in the morning but we have done just that and its incredibly hard to see down in there. Might be a good time to invest in a borescope.
 
I was trying to find the internals for Robodrill / Curtis Wright original concept … And (temporarily) gave up.

The thing that caught my eye is what appears to be a mini river / trail of dissolved goethite corrosion products that appear to make trail out of that Tapered washer, bushing , / (whatever it is) cap screw part. [looks like something that should be lubricated is not and has failed somehow ? i.e. a seal may have failed also. ].

On some machines the inside of the castings are not finished / sprayed with a sealer just left to actively corrode very slowly. Red goethite indicates active (higher rate) corrosion whereas black magnetite ferrous corrosion products indicates slower corrosion processes that also have a surface passivating effect.


From the picture (it's only picture can't really tell) they may have used a bronze type of bushing for the pivot bearing, (depending on which bronze) they used and the composition of the spindle tool changer lifting arm there could be active corrosion in how that assembly seats. [Galvanic corrosion where key components are left "Anodic" to the rest of the machine... In simple terms something could be behaving as a sacrificial anode (like on a boat).].

@Yasnak is there a maintenance manual to show you where particular points have to be lubricated / inclusion of grease nipples etc. Or maybe they used an oil impregnated sleeve type bearing where they thought lubrication might not be necessary?


Maybe reach out to Robodrill or Brother Speedio service people for any procedures to fix that or tackle that... ?

I.e. how to pull the machine apart, have it serviced; the machine is only a few years old right ?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Daniel Jend of Jend Machinery in Colorado was aiming to sell Bulova but I see also they are not on his "Books" anymore. He sells good machines like OKK too.

I went through some of their literature (at the time) … They bill themselves as "Micro machines" but there really wasn't anything I could find that would make them any more precise or accurate than a Robodrill.


I think around the IMTS before … (Not 2018/2016 ) 2outof3 was kinda pouring scorn on these machines and kinda predicted that these guys would go "Belly up/Tits up"/Tank... He is usually given to smothering things in the nest before they can gain traction (which in business is not a bad way to go if you are in very competitive sectors and slim margins) , but to his credit he may have "Called it".

Whew, lots of information here. The literature we have is pretty vague. I've searched over the book and there is no sort of 'maintenance' section which is fun. I also looked at similar machines and couldn't find much. We've reached out to many techs and might have a lead with an old partner of Bulova but until its fixed we're a lame duck on this machine. They're not bad machines but I hope we don't run into any other issues down the road. Hah
 








 
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