Buying your first VMC - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 77
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    49
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    36

    Default

    If you want a quiet compressor get a Jun or Silentaire. They literally sound like fish tank pumps. Not going to run a bunch of air tools with one, but more than enough for a minimill.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    958
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1210
    Likes (Received)
    640

    Default

    I had a MiniMill2. It was very easy to run. Get rigid tapping of course. Be sure to get the high speed machining (as I think they call it) option. It will definitely be worth it. You can get it later, it's just a code to turn on the feature already in the control, but usually one can get a bit of a deal with purchase. Profiling and pocketing will run much faster, especially with chip thinning tool paths. Using that sort of machining technique will be a very good thing on that machine. IIRC there is a sale right now, don't know if the MM2 is on that list. I hope it is for your sake.
    I did have a couple of problems that were not huge. Mine had the tool changer motor go out under warranty, and then a couple more times later. I think they had a bad batch of those. They also used the poorest quality plastic lines for coolant and air going to the spindle area. Not a giant deal, fairly easy to replace.
    Also get the programmable coolant nozzle - that makes life a lot better. I did not have a chip auger, and it wasn't a problem. You will want to do a thorough cleaning of the coolant tank area once a month or so, maybe even make an extra screen to keep chips out of the intake. My machine was new in 2012, and I think they've redesigned the base since then.
    I found the Haas control the easiest to use of those I've experience with. I didn't use the conversational. It has changed since mine, of course.
    I bought a Polar Air rotary compressor a few years ago, decent price. It's been good.
    Good luck!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    Thanks eaglemike for your advice. Much appreciated. I will look at high speed machining.

    Would programable coolant be necessary if I have TSC?

    I think my first project I will try and make is a pocket knife. I know this is a pretty competitive market and probably not the direction I would end up going. However I already have my military buddies that all ate lining up to buy a custom knife with some military significance cut into the handle. It seems like a good way to get paid to learn (provided I can learn how to make a decent product).

    I am excited about what next year will bring.

    Thanks everyone for weighing in.

    Scott

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    S.E. WI
    Posts
    153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    54

    Default

    what's your rough budget #? everyone on here loves to put a budgetary list together for you. are you confined to single phase only? of the options you mentioned probing is a big bang for the buck with haas you get just about every control option in the package tough to beat and great for a lot applications. tsc like mentioned for starters i'd ditch and spend that coin elswhere. chip auger is nice if you are running production but that money in your instance may be better spent elsewhere. options almost every Haas gets outfitted with is programmable coolant and get it wired for a 4th axis for future needs. good starting point is add 10% of machine cost for tooling and another 10% for workholding.

    Depending on if you have any limits on power and entrance to your shop i'd compare the MM to a VF-1/2. Really depends on parts and scope of work the MM can run out of space quick.

    Costs add up quick make sure you skip some unnecessary luxuries and don't skimp on the basics.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,489
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1925
    Likes (Received)
    982

    Default

    I don't think programmable coolant is a big deal. I just use a spreader nozzle oriented vertically:
    https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09778168

    When I'm not using TSC that is.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    958
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1210
    Likes (Received)
    640

    Default

    There's a lot of times you will not be using TSC, IMHO. Getting every tool and holder to use TSC would be pricey. Maybe your parts won't need the variety of tools though. (I would definitely get the programmable nozzle) I used a wide variety of tool lengths in mine. I also had a couple of loc-line nozzles. I did buy the high flow coolant pump. I'm not sure if you can get the high flow pump on single phase - the pump actually uses a fair amount of juice. Three phase is a very good thing if you can. Just mentioning this since it was mentioned earlier in the thread.
    If you don't get the programmable nozzle, you can set up a manifold with a few of the spreader nozzles. I just know that for my parts I'd have needed more than one of them - but that's just me. I did find the spreaders would plug up a bit at times. I ran mostly aluminum. some mild steel, some 1144, some 416, and a bit of 17-4 H900.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    Duce and Eagle Mike, thanks for the input.

    I am rewiring my detached garage. It currently has 100amp single phase. I plan to install a rotary phase converter. Although if I cut out TSC then I could run the MM2 on single phase and save some money there.

    My budget is approx $100,000. I am budgeting about $70,000 for the mill and $30,000 for everything else in the shop. I will NOT be incurring any debt for this.

    Tooling is where I am at the beginning of my research. It is a big topic to wade through. I kind of feel like the sales rep has the upper hand at this point. I am learning and In the mean time going through all my fathers old tooling to see what will work with the new machine.

    I though about 4th axis wiring, but for the price and size of work space on the MM2, I think it might be good money spent wrong. I realize 5 axis is the future and a must have to be a serious shop. For now though I look at the MM2 as this is my learning machine. To put a rotary table on a MM2 with 5 axis wiring is almost $20,000.

    I have considered a VF1 and it is tempting for an extra $10,000 I can be into a significantly larger machine. But I need to draw the line somewhere and keep the wife comfortable with the purchase.

    Keep the advice coming. It is good to hear other opinions than youtube channels and sales reps.

    Thanks Scott

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,489
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1925
    Likes (Received)
    982

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglemike View Post
    There's a lot of times you will not be using TSC, IMHO.
    I have very few holders that aren't TSC. I just get all of the pull studs as the TSC variant, and every collet holder with a standard collet is TSC. Most of my shrink fits are TSC, they weren't much more expensive than the non-TSC variant. TSC almost always works better than flood when it can be used; the only exceptions are small, very high RPM tools (>10K RPM), and you won't be spinning that fast in a minimill.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    Sorry, I forgot to reply to the size of my shop. It is a double car garage 21’x 22’ my celing height is 110” and the garage door is 94” high. So a MM2 and VF1/2 will fit in there no problem.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    958
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1210
    Likes (Received)
    640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    I have very few holders that aren't TSC. I just get all of the pull studs as the TSC variant, and every collet holder is TSC. Most of my shrink fits are TSC, they weren't much more expensive than the non-TSC variant. TSC almost always works better than flood when it can be used; the only exceptions are small, very high RPM tools (>10K RPM), and you won't be spinning that fast in a minimill.
    It's going to depend on the work he does, of course. A TSC pump is going to need more power.
    I think there are better options for the mill, but I could be wrong.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    TSC bumps the power requirements from single phase to three phase.

    I am fine with installing a rotary phase converter.

    My understanding is TSC is better for chip evacuation. I understand that TSC tooling is more expensive, and replacing worn out bits can be costly. But I feel that in the beginning I will not be cutting anything close to production. In fact I plan to go at a snails pace to reduce the risk of crashing. So I am ok with spending a bit more on tooling. But I am open to other opinions.

    Scott

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    To switch up the conversation a bit what are peoples thought on a Brother vs a HAAS? I am not married to any brand yet.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    856
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    501
    Likes (Received)
    520

    Default

    If you get a RPC definitely get an American Rotary. I am running a Doosan DNM5700 with TSC+flood and a 4th at the same time as a Hyundai-KIA SKT250 lathe and the 75hp ADX doesn't even flinch and this is with the air compressor going also (Atlas-Copco 5hp). Atlas-Copco sales talked me out of a larger compressor saying with my air usage needs it wouldn't run enough to burn off the oil residue. The smaller one was cheaper also of course.

    You would not need nearly as large a RPC as a 75hp so the cost ends up being lower. The 75hp ADX is their most expensive single unit and it was $5k. I used the code from Vintage Machinery on YouTube and it knocked 10% off. Fantastic deal. Never an issue in 3 years now.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
    Posts
    6,619
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3148

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott9805 View Post
    My budget is approx $100,000. I am budgeting about $70,000 for the mill and $30,000 for everything else in the shop.
    You're never going to earn this back, you know. Just in case you thought this hobby was going to pay for itself ....

  15. Likes BT Fabrication liked this post
  16. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    British Columbia
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Default

    Emanuel, I appreciate your concern and candid opinion.

    My goal is not to ‘earn’ the money back. I want to learn and enjoy making things.

    While I might have an optimistic opinion of myself, I do believe that if I put my mind to it I could certainly recoup my investment costs. But if I don’t, then at least I can make my own washers and have fun doing it.

    I hope you have a great day.

    Scott

  17. Likes mhajicek, TeachMePlease, kazlx liked this post
  18. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,487
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    919
    Likes (Received)
    1660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott9805 View Post
    Sorry, I forgot to reply to the size of my shop. It is a double car garage 21’x 22’ my celing height is 110” and the garage door is 94” high. So a MM2 and VF1/2 will fit in there no problem.
    If push comes to shove with regards to your budget, you will not regret getting a bare bones VF2 over a well optioned MM2.

    IMHO.

  19. Likes BT Fabrication liked this post
  20. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
    Posts
    6,619
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3148

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott9805 View Post
    While I might have an optimistic opinion of myself, I do believe that if I put my mind to it I could certainly recoup my investment costs.
    Not concerned, and not criticizing your opinion, just a reality check. If you can charge $60/hr, then consumables and electric and so on will eat up $20 of that so you can recoup $40/hr if you don't pay yourself a single penny and nothing ever breaks. If you bonk the spindle and if costs $5,000 to fix, add more hours.

    This is not including software and learning time and interfacing time and general computer time, billing, record-keeping, making collections calls, etc.

    So you would have to keep the machine filled with work for let's say 3,000 hours not including anything else before you broke even.

    In the real world, I'd expect it to take 10,000 hours of pretty-busy before you break even. That's five years of forty hour weeks.

    I know it looks exciting now but it's a pretty good bet that after the first six months it won't be nearly as much fun. Maybe ... you never know the future .... but seems like most people get into machining because they want to make something, not drive a cnc machine for a hobby because it looks interesting.

    Of course it's your decision but a hundred grand is not peanuts. You could find out if you actually like this stuff for a hell of a lot less, like ten percent of that, then step up if you do. This is kind of like buying a 50' sailboat to see if you like the water ... from Omaha. And you can't swim.

    I know you can learn, but do you really want to ?

  21. Likes 706jim, Hillside Fab, BT Fabrication liked this post
  22. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,978
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    546
    Likes (Received)
    911

    Default

    "I know you can learn, but do you really want to ?"

    That sounds to me like his main goal, for him and his son. Highly commendable In my mind, his son could walk into a set of skills he could use in almost every aspect of his life. CNC machining can be a lot of fun if you are not with your back against the wall with payments and if they find it is not as interesting as he thought it would be, as mentioned above low hour modern machines carry a good resale.

    I would lean more to the VF1/2 but that is likely because that is what I am used to. In the begining the CAD/CAM was the hard part for me as there are a lot of variables there, the machine simply does what you tell it to do and if you go slow and watch it you won't have too many problems with learning to use it.

  23. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
    Posts
    6,619
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3148

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kustomizer View Post
    CNC machining can be a lot of fun if you are not with your back against the wall with payments ...
    Agree totally ! And the software part, too ...

    BRIDGEPORT VMC-760 VERTICAL MACHINING CENTER 4 axis $13,000

  24. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    5,582
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    252
    Likes (Received)
    1801

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott9805 View Post
    To switch up the conversation a bit what are peoples thought on a Brother vs a HAAS? I am not married to any brand yet.
    OK, well, you started it

    I have a Speedio S700X1. Its great. It will run production parts way, way faster than a Haas MM. But it's 30-taper, and the MM is 40-taper. If you are job-shopping, running a couple of these and a few of those, the speed of the Brother won't be much of a factor since you'll spend way more time programming and setting up than actually machining (Xometry anyone? )

    You can get the TSI prep package on a Speedio which is all the plumbing and filtering (plus some other nice options), then add the pump down the road if/when you need it. That's what I did when I bought mine in 2016, and haven't added the pump yet. The pump ain't cheap, way more than the whole Haas TSI package.

    There's no "safe mode" with a Speedio. You can dial back the rapids and feeds at the console, but that's it.

    No 1-phase option with Speedio, so you need to make 3-phase. Not a lot of amperage, but it needs to be clean 200-230V 3-phase.

    Speedio fits easily in your space. I can move my S700X1 with a pallet jack.

    Regards.

    Mike

  25. Likes eaglemike liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •