CAM vs Hand Coding - Page 8
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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Some of my commercial work involves drilling lots and lots of 6-32s in aluminum. I have often wondered if there was time to be saved if rather than running the old 2 1/2 axis toolpaths if I ran it all angles and radius' in z so it never really stops at the top of the hole

    never tried it, too lazy
    Ran this for a local potential client that was struggling with 6-32 tapped holes in 6061. Drilled .650" deep, cut tapped 100 #6-32 blind holes .500" deep full thread in 90 seconds. He ordered a R650.

    20181130_130455.jpg

    Brother Synchronized tapping has an edge.

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  3. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    Drilled .650" deep, cut tapped 100 #6-32 blind holes .500" deep full thread in 90 seconds. He ordered a R650.

    20181130_130455.jpg

    Brother Synchronized tapping has an edge.
    So each drilled and tapped hole took roughly 0.9 seconds???

  4. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    Ran this for a local potential client that was struggling with 6-32 tapped holes in 6061. Drilled .650" deep, cut tapped 100 #6-32 blind holes .500" deep full thread in 90 seconds. He ordered a R650.

    20181130_130455.jpg

    Brother Synchronized tapping has an edge.
    I was right at the edge of ordering a speedio a couple years back now, but business just tanked for a bit

    Course now I probably have the cash and I'll bet I couldn't get one for love or money

  5. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonytn36 View Post
    Engineer for a Global Tier 1 supplier here. 80% or more of our programming is hand code.
    Interesting thing here of the big huge production run places.
    So much is hand coded. Simulations of the hand code can maybe find spots to tweak.

    One offs or simple parts get hand code in a small shop also.
    The very big and the very small seem to get hand coded So in the middle seems CAM the love.
    I admit to a simple facing a one pass width block to square it using the CAM.

    Hand code or finger cam is it at the control panel or done in notepad and passed to the the machine?
    Bob

  6. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug925 View Post
    So each drilled and tapped hole took roughly 0.9 seconds???
    No, just the tapping. The drilling was extra. tapped the holes at 6000 rpm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    One offs or simple parts get hand code in a small shop also.
    The very big and the very small seem to get hand coded So in the middle seems CAM the love.
    I have not yet seen any CAM code for turning that's worth a bottle of Ripple. It's awful, and so easy to do well by hand.

  8. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    No, just the tapping. The drilling was extra. tapped the holes at 6000 rpm.
    drill/csink/tap still probably still less than 2 seconds a hole

  9. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    drill/csink/tap still probably still less than 2 seconds a hole
    I think it was about 3 seconds, but wasn't using CTS! When I used to do time studies frequently, my typical time for drill, spot and tap smallish holes in Aluminum was about a second per tool, which gave a little fudge factor. There is still good availability of new Brother machines in the US. Yamazen typically has about 200 in stock at a given time. You should check with your local rep if you are interested, September is a good month to purchase as it is Yamazen's end of the first half of the fiscal year. Feel free to contact me if there is anything I can help with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    September is a good month to purchase as it is Yamazen's end of the first half of the fiscal year.
    You made me smile Anyone else from northern california remember a lady outside sales for either kilsby or tube sales ? She knew her stuff ... would go with her daughter to buy a car and get it for three cents over real dealer cost. She knew what buttons to push, what day of the week to go, what week of the month, month of the year, time of day, strings to pull, things to say, I would never want to try to sell her anything cuz you may as well just give it away and hope she recommended you, you weren't going to make a penny on it

    On the other hand, if you needed something ? She either got it for you, best price, or sent you where you could. She knew more about steel than most guys working for USS. One of those people you remember forever.

  11. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmadness View Post
    Can’t you modify the post to stack M codes on a single line? Additionally, optimizing the post to output exactly just as detailed code structure as you want by eliminating any redundancies, extraneous lines, etc? Idk about the early unlock turret stuff but it is possible that some post work could theoretically do it or perhaps it’s some misc. reals and integers.

    If we’re talking about getting that nitty gritty (milliseconds) then developing a post that can do all that sounds like it would 100% pay for itself vs having to hand edit and parse a bunch of code (potential for human error). Yes it costs investment in time but once it is dialed then it doesn’t need to be fucked with later on.

    I’m no “postmaster” myself but I’ve seen some pretty crazy things people have accomplished with post mods. It’s basically a blank canvas

    Yep, I'm going to invest all of that time in developing a set of posts (multiple machines with multiple different controllers) to modify (or possibly write) a new set of very custom macro programs once every 3 years. And if the new product in the 3 year cycle requires a different machine (very possible) be added to the line for an additional feature, then I have to spend all that time to develop a post for that one too.

    I am sorry, but that just isn't an efficient use of my or my teams time. I can get a much higher rate of return if I use that time to look for and fix the root cause for the 30-40 parts a shift that go missing from the throughput numbers with no explanation (hidden downtime) or to figure out why we had 20 scrap last night and develop a corrective action to address that, or hunting that 0.1 second of cycle time reduction on our bottleneck operation.

    I am not trying to be a smart a$$, but I work in a very different world than most here.

    In my world, you write custom macro programs that have a "front end" for the operators to make adjustments and settings. Note that these operators likely have never even seen a wrench, let alone a tape measure before they were hired and may have actually been flipping burgers yesterday, so you HAVE to make is as simple as possible. You DO NOT want these folks making adjustments in your actual machining program. You want them making adjustments in a macro program front end where you can parse the inputs to make sure they didn't put 10 mm when they should have put 0.1 mm. You can't prevent all stupid, but you do what you can to limit it and the damage it can cause.

    Not all operators are like that, we have some *very* good ones. But those are old hands that have been there for years. The crop of new ones the last few years...well....... I honestly wonder how some of them learned how to tie the shoes they have on.

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  13. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonytn36 View Post
    I honestly wonder how some of them learned how to tie the shoes they have on.

    Velcro.............

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie gary View Post
    What is/was TERA? Never heard of them, and all the internet tells me is it's some kind of game.
    I went looking but also couldn't find anything .... they were a control builder in the Seattle area, a little bit like General Automation in that they came at it from the computing standpoint rather than the machining end. They had a ton of advanced features such as parabolic interpolation, long before anyone else. When people were taking about putting nurbs into the control rather than using a million little points, they were always at the top of the list. And I think they were one of the few that implemented that thing where you didn't need post-processors for the control, they'd accept a CL input directly from any cam system. Too bad that never went anywhere either.

    Lots of good stuff never went anywhere, after the Japs took over

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    Hey everyone, seems like this thread has died off so I'll say thanks to everyone for their input. There was some really interesting conversation in there, I feel like I learned a good bit, especially about the automotive sector. The points made will definitely be useful in engaging the students with some of the realities of the manufacturing sector. So thanks for that!

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  17. #154
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    Running two CNC lathes and they are both 100% hand programmed


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