"Cheap" Tool Holders
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 53
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Western USA
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default "Cheap" Tool Holders

    I fully expect to get roasted for asking this, but what has everyone's experience been with "cheap Chinese" tool holders?

    I have a Sharp TMV-1 CNC knee mill I'm about to buy tool holders for. It has a 5000 RPM NMTB40 spindle. I plan on getting a longer drawbar so I can use CAT40 holders. This is a garage/hobby machine and I'm never expecting to run large scale production.

    I would never consider using these holders in a VMC with a high RPM spindle, but are they sufficient for my application? I'll pay the premium for high quality tool holders if necessary, but am obviously looking to save money where I can.

    CAT40 ER16 70mm 2.76" Collet Chuck Tool Holder Balanced G2.5 20000RPM New | eBay

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Saskatchewan
    Posts
    10,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1396
    Likes (Received)
    3696

    Default

    Buy a few and try them out, it is not a major gamble to take. The main issue I've had with some Chinese made tooling is the thread quality: they can sometimes be cut extremely loose, as though they used the most oversize tap they could find to make sure the bolt will screw in after heat treating. Presumably, anybody who is going to manufacture tooling to make their money is going to have enough sense to make it the correct shape. But the heat treatment is something we can only guess at the quality thereof.

    Make sure that you click assemble the collets into the nut properly before you put the tool shank in. Otherwise you'll think you got bummed out tooling.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI USA
    Posts
    455
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    249
    Likes (Received)
    126

    Default

    Several years ago I bought a couple of cheap CAT40 holders on ebay. One of them seemed to be fine. The other one wouldn't even fit all of the way into the spindle. The taper near the flange measured way oversize (over 1/16" IIRC). If something that bad got past their QC then they have no QC. Who knows what else might be wrong with them. It wasn't worth messing up my spindles to save a few bucks.

    Now I buy most of my toolholders from MariTool. The prices are pretty reasonable there, and they are very high quality. But if you're looking to save money, Shars toolholders seem to be OK. I have a few of them, and I haven't seen any issues with them. I would definitely take them over no-name Chinese ebay holders. It looks like right now you can get four ER16 collet chucks for $200 which isn't that much more than the ebay holders.

  4. Likes mhajicek liked this post
  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Georgia
    Posts
    615
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    8
    Likes (Received)
    110

    Default "Cheap" Tool Holders

    Look up tpac tools on eBay. They sell er16 and er32 (the other stuff may not be good)I don’t feel like giving my whole spiel but they are good. .0002” which on any mill with a nmtb40 spindle will probably be better then you ever need. Shars Taiwan made endmill holders are also not bad but kinda pricey I would rather get maritool. Most of what I run is er collets as most small Tools don’t come with Weldon flats anymore and I can’t afford the high end clamping systems.

    If you buy the no name stuff good luck. Who knows what they are made of. But you could always use bt40 aswell. Even cheaper I think.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Maine, USA
    Posts
    445
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1914
    Likes (Received)
    82

    Default

    I've bought a few of those cheap ones on Ebay as well, in CAT40. My only complaint is the runout of the collets, which is of no surprise. These were bought to get me going on some open-tolerance work. As they get replaced from now on, they'll be replaced with halfway decent stuff. Whatever that is...

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    4,971
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    889
    Likes (Received)
    2082

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianagos View Post
    Look up tpac tools on eBay. They sell er16 and er32 ....
    $35 w/ pull stud, Mazak or Haas design.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,204
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4783
    Likes (Received)
    3149

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grenade View Post
    but what has everyone's experience been with "cheap Chinese" tool holders?
    My experience was if you paid for shit, you got shit.
    You don't need to buy uber-expensive holders,but I definitely would never buy the ones you linked.
    Your holder is a crucial element of how your cutter performs, why sacrifice runout or rigidity just because it was a few dollars cheaper than a decent mid range holder?

    A Mari-Tool Cat 40 holder ER-16 will cost you a Ben Franklin and you're not rolling the dice on whether or not it's a pile of shit.

    Just ask yourself is $70 worth chancing a spindle repair?

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    poulsbo, wa, usa
    Posts
    1,030
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    72
    Likes (Received)
    441

    Default

    I have about 100+ cat40 shars holders in the shop and every one has been great,, I "ONLY" buy there balanced holders so I cant speech about there cheaper holders .

    I tried there er32 and er16 collets and found I like the techniks collets a lot better and well only use Techniks and T.J.Davies or techniks pull studs ..

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Ontario
    Posts
    26
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Most of my ER 16/32 holders are "cheap" ones from Ebay (TPAC, etc) or Shars. I check runout of every one of them after purchasing and they are usually less than 0.0003" runout. There have been a few which are worse (some up to 0.001"), but I will reserve those for less critical operations (drilling/tapping/etc).

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,134
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3501
    Likes (Received)
    2676

    Default

    We bought some cheap holders........in a nutshell.....they will post runout numbers in their ads that they dont actually achieve. We also found some that the dimensions of the taper was not ground correctly. Got rid of them before any noticeable spindle damage. I dont have a specific holder i would reccommend for you, but i would stay away from the bottom feeders. We use alot of Schunk and Sandvik .....but those are much more expensive than what you are looking for.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    953
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    84
    Likes (Received)
    347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    My experience was if you paid for shit, you got shit.
    You don't need to buy uber-expensive holders,but I definitely would never buy the ones you linked.
    Your holder is a crucial element of how your cutter performs, why sacrifice runout or rigidity just because it was a few dollars cheaper than a decent mid range holder?

    A Mari-Tool Cat 40 holder ER-16 will cost you a Ben Franklin and you're not rolling the dice on whether or not it's a pile of shit.

    Just ask yourself is $70 worth chancing a spindle repair?
    Exactly
    I have about 100 holders, putting new spindles in 2 machines here in the next month or so. I'm going to buy all new holders just cause I don't want the used ones pounding the new spindle bores. I called maritool to see what he thought he said good idea but check my old ones real good 1st.
    thought about getting the tool holders reground but it would be almost the cost of new ones.
    most of these holders are 15 years old in a old fadal that doesnt have a perfect bore. all are good high end holders. some show no signs of wear/marks on the tapers so they are probably good.
    have to blue them up and check I guess

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,171
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    219
    Likes (Received)
    710

    Default

    You can buy er16 25 32 for 17.00 each from CME tools Michigan they work fine no problems here collets 5 bucks each draw bars 4 bucks each
    Don


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    poulsbo, wa, usa
    Posts
    1,030
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    72
    Likes (Received)
    441

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Delw View Post
    Exactly
    I have about 100 holders, putting new spindles in 2 machines here in the next month or so. I'm going to buy all new holders just cause I don't want the used ones pounding the new spindle bores. I called maritool to see what he thought he said good idea but check my old ones real good 1st.
    thought about getting the tool holders reground but it would be almost the cost of new ones.
    most of these holders are 15 years old in a old fadal that doesnt have a perfect bore. all are good high end holders. some show no signs of wear/marks on the tapers so they are probably good.
    have to blue them up and check I guess
    I also had a lot left over from Fadal days ,, most were Collis and non were Balanced at all ... I put a collis er32 "UN"balanced holder in the Haas and at 12K you could tell 20 feet away.. From what I have seen the China junk today is better than the older US stuff.

    I have a HUGE mix of techniks , Mari and balanced shars and all have been vary nice .. I just got in 20 ER16 Shars holders at the end of the year and tested a hand full and all were under .0002 runout ... Close enough for drill tap work.

    My VF4SS spends most of its life spinning 12K and after 5 years the spindle sounds just the same as the day I got it ..

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    898
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    195
    Likes (Received)
    383

    Default

    I have them and use them in one of my machines. With that said, I have been reluctant to use them in my more expensive machine and if I do, I'm not trusting they are balanced. Maybe I'll use them for tap holders.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,220
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1532
    Likes (Received)
    823

    Default

    My worst fear would be the taper angle being off and damaging the spindle taper.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    20
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default

    I bought a few and the runout was good but they were very soft.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Posts
    437
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    84
    Likes (Received)
    123

    Default

    When I tooled up a few years ago I bought some new chinese holders and some used brand name holders. Buying used brand name tooling turned out to be a WAY better deal. Many of the chinese holders have run out. One face mill holder I bought had the center hole drilled like 40 thou over, leaving like 20% thread left. Several of the pull stud threads had a ton of runout, definitely check pull stud run out on all cheap holders before using. None of them were hardened worth a dam. I bought some awesome looking tapered shank ER16 holders and they came in a completely different shape then advertised. I certainly wouldnt worry about them damaging the spindle, they are not hard enough to do damage. Stick with used brand name tooling. Especially if your in the US. Im from Canada and its actually cheaper for us to get stuff from china most times. shipping within US is usally cheap or free and there is a ton of tooling on ebay etc if you look through it.

    Chinese ER collets are ridiculously cheap. If you have more time then money buy a bunch (maybe from different sellers) and test them for TIR in a decent tool holder. I had to toss about 1/3 of the ones I bought. But in the end I have a bunch of usable ones now for next to nothing.

    I wouldnt mess with chinese or unknown used pull studs on any machine. This is one area you need to suck it up and buy new.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    FINLAND
    Posts
    2,157
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    586
    Likes (Received)
    999

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianagos View Post
    Look up tpac tools on eBay. They sell er16 and er32 (the other stuff may not be good)I don’t feel like giving my whole spiel but they are good. .0002” which on any mill with a nmtb40 spindle will probably be better then you ever need. Shars Taiwan made endmill holders are also not bad but kinda pricey I would rather get maritool. Most of what I run is er collets as most small Tools don’t come with Weldon flats anymore and I can’t afford the high end clamping systems.

    If you buy the no name stuff good luck. Who knows what they are made of. But you could always use bt40 aswell. Even cheaper I think.
    tpac tools looked like good hint. Any experience with their ER collets?

    In general if you go for cheap chinese tooling at least buy from seller that is specialized in tooling. In my experience there is a bit better change that they know what they are selling. OP's link was to some ebay seller that sells all kinds of chinese junk from flower pots to motorcycle tuning parts.

    There is Chinese tools and whole nother level of Chinese tools: Something like Shars (or mentioned tpac) vs. random ebay sellers that sell everything from flower pots to womens lingerie.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Georgia
    Posts
    615
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    8
    Likes (Received)
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    tpac tools looked like good hint. Any experience with their ER collets?

    In general if you go for cheap chinese tooling at least buy from seller that is specialized in tooling. In my experience there is a bit better change that they know what they are selling. OP's link was to some ebay seller that sells all kinds of chinese junk from flower pots to motorcycle tuning parts.

    There is Chinese tools and whole nother level of Chinese tools: Something like Shars (or mentioned tpac) vs. random ebay sellers that sell everything from flower pots to womens lingerie.
    I do not use their collets or pull studs. I only buy their holders. I use techniks collets and cme tools from ebay (I have received bad ones from them). Typically use shars pullstuds. Seem to be quality and non coolant through.

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    CANADA
    Posts
    609
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    40
    Likes (Received)
    185

    Default

    I re-tooled both my VMC machines 4 years ago with cheap Cat40 tooling. All collet holders. I've been very happy with them. Infact no complaints at all. I cut soft material and graphite, so keep that in mind.

    I will say I would never consider cheap shrink tooling, I've had bad experiences with that.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •