Chiron FZ12W Too Changer trouble. HELP Please?
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  1. #1
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    Default Chiron FZ12W Too Changer trouble. HELP Please?

    Hello everyone,
    I have been in this forum for a number of years but have not posted a lot. I have been more of a interested reader on the topics brought by the members. Now I have an issue and I need help. Hope someone can due that for me. I notice that this forum does not have much on Chiron machines and unfortunately for me I owed one. First and most, the machine is a 90 something F12W with fanuc 0m control and it has been a very good machine for me. Now for my problem. I am having issues with the tool changer. Machine ran perfect the day before considering that it sat for a couple of months ( lack of work) and when I fired it up the next day I could not get it to due tool change consistently. It seems that tool 1 and 3 on the program will change like clock work but the rest of the tools are hit and miss. the basket comes down, it releases the tool from the spindle, and than it just sits there. I get no alarms. I called Chiron America and got some directions from tech support, unfortunately I can only troubleshot so much (not a cnc repair person, way above my head and not ashamed to say) I was told by chiron that it could be lack of air, or something in the parameters, or some switches not responding meaning sticky. I did find a couple of cracked lines that I repaired, I also found a cracked hose connector on the up and down cyllnder for the basket that I also replaced. I cleaned all I could with denatured alcohol but still having problems. Reading some of the old posts on this forum I notice lot of comments on tool changer issues for this machine that need a lot of maint. mainly cleaning something Unfortunately no one has mentioned what these issues and what to look for to correct is. I love this machine, had it for 5 years and had hardly no issues with it this could be something simple but I can't seem to find what. Any help would be greatly apreciated I need this machine back up as soon as possible ( production job pending). Thank you in advance.

    Claude

  2. #2
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    First thing to check is air pressure.It should be 87-90 psi but a bit more does no harm.Split hoses leaks etc on the toolchanger are enough to stop it working.Check also that there is oil in the air lube unit.If it is empty,fill it up and increase the flow for a few days.
    Next problem with these can be that when it comes down it does not quite reach the proximity switch at the bottom of travel.You can see this switch in between the front two toolholder brackets in the head casting.When it was new it had green and orange leds which changed colour when it was down or up.Muck in the bottom of the internal cylinder builds up over the years and can stop it travelling the last few thou.This can be proved by getting hold of the top of the front two cylinders and giving them a pull down when it`s down and stopped.I`ve had this problem if a compressor on auto has not came back on quick enough and the air has dropped a few psi.
    If the proximity switch has been replaced with one without the leds you will need to check the voltages in the terminal box up on the left hand side.IIRC it only puts out a signal when down but I might be wrong.
    See how you get on with that and if it doesn`t help come back and I will try and help.These toolchangers are pretty simple when you understand how they work but a bit daunting to look at when you`re not used to them.
    It could be a valve on the manifold behind the head but probably not when a lot of toolholders are affected.

  3. #3
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    Thank you for the information. I will try what was suggested and see what happens. By the way the air lube unit, I can't seem to increase the flow on it not sure if I am doing something wrong or the unit is faulty. as far as the leds on the front they due turn orange and green when the basket is up or down. I did find another leak at the top where the manifold connects to the cylinder it is like a brass T that has a coupling on the top where a hose connector is and it screws on top of the manifold. The leak is where the two screw together on top of the manifold I can't seem to stop the leak not sure if its in the nut or on top of the manifold where the what looks to be a brass nut is what looks to be molded on the top of the manifold.

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    While you are looking at it.When the basket is down and the tool released look at the right hand side push pull cylinder,the one with the shock absorber on the top.There is an upper and lower proximity switch on that too,check the lower one is on.
    Also if you look at the air manifold at the back of the head,you will see each valve has a brass slotted screwhead on it.This is for working the valves manually.Check that the slots are all horizontal.

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    thank you for all your help. I increased the oil flow to the air lines like you suggested and the changer started to work again.

    Claude

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    Chiron FZ12W are good production machines barring the tool changer. I have one of them which I purchased from the used market. It runs very well but need spares for the tool changer. If anyone could recommend someone who sells used tool changer spares like the arms, pneumatic cylinders pls let me know.

    If anyone knows users who are interested in selling Chiron FZ 12W with Fanuc control and with a minimum of 8 working arms pls let me know as I am interested in buying more machines.

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    I'm in the same boat, have you had any luck?

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    I too have a chiron FZ, only half the tool changers work, and those that do are sluggish and always throwing up alarms.. is there a way to repair the cylinders, or do you have to replace the whole changer?

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    I'm sure the cylinders can be rebuilt unless they use some proprietary and unavailable seal, but I doubt it.

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    I've only worked on a couple Chirons and they both used Festo cylinders. Should be able to get replacements.

    Without a doubt the least reliable and most maintenance intensive toolchanger on any machine tool I have ever dealt with.

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    Default Chiron fz 12w part

    We are currently stripping two Chiron FZ 12W machines, one has a Fanuc Series 21i-M control and the other has a Fanuc Series 21M Control. Electrical and Mechanical parts will be available. Let me know if you are interested in any particular items.

    They will be available in our ebay store shortly.

    Thanks,

    [email protected]

    ebay Store - Nu Tek Sales | eBay Stores

  12. #12
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    I am still using the old Chiron FZ 12W with Fanuc OM control.
    Removed all the old cylinders and new local ones made and replaced all the pneumatic system to new ones. These now work 0k but with a lot of maintenance engineer support. (These guys hate this machine) but my users like the rigidity of the machine.
    My maintenance persons have warned me not to buy any more of this machine because of the tool changer.
    I also have a Chiron FZ12S which is not working due to electrical problems.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 5 Pro using Tapatalk

  13. #13
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    Default Chiron FZ12W Basket toolchanger problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark McGrath View Post
    First thing to check is air pressure.It should be 87-90 psi but a bit more does no harm.Split hoses leaks etc on the toolchanger are enough to stop it working.Check also that there is oil in the air lube unit.If it is empty,fill it up and increase the flow for a few days.
    Next problem with these can be that when it comes down it does not quite reach the proximity switch at the bottom of travel.You can see this switch in between the front two toolholder brackets in the head casting.When it was new it had green and orange leds which changed colour when it was down or up.Muck in the bottom of the internal cylinder builds up over the years and can stop it travelling the last few thou.This can be proved by getting hold of the top of the front two cylinders and giving them a pull down when it`s down and stopped.I`ve had this problem if a compressor on auto has not came back on quick enough and the air has dropped a few psi.
    If the proximity switch has been replaced with one without the leds you will need to check the voltages in the terminal box up on the left hand side.IIRC it only puts out a signal when down but I might be wrong.
    See how you get on with that and if it doesn`t help come back and I will try and help.These toolchangers are pretty simple when you understand how they work but a bit daunting to look at when you`re not used to them.
    It could be a valve on the manifold behind the head but probably not when a lot of toolholders are affected.

    Good day, I see you have some experience with Chiron basket toolholders. Im about to replace all the cylinders with custom made ones, but I have a problem. My machine doesnt want to change the tool for example. If I have T10 installed and want to change to T13 it works. But if I want to change from T13 to T14 it doesnt work. The T13 retracts and then the error arrises. So if I need to change from T13 to T14 I have to go like this: T13->T10->T14. And there is more tool positions that does this. Do you know what can be the cause? I would also want that next tool goes down when the previous tool fully retracts. Is there a way to adjust this? Thank you very much.

    Machine is 1996 Chiron FZ12W with Sinumerik 810M.

    Best regards.


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