Choosing a new VMC.

Hello.

I hope you can help me to make a good decision.

We are looking to buy a new VMC, just to change one of the Haas machines we have which is 5 years old and my boss wants to change this Haas for a new machine.

We have 4 options and all of them are around the same price.

I have one option which seems to be a really good good good price, but we don't have that much reference from this machine. It is a Taiwanese Pinnacle LV105 (40" x 20" ) but includes band chip conveyor, TSC, Heidenhain glass scales in X, Y and Z, 15K rpm and Fanuc Control. $ 99k

Mazak VCEz20 which is the same size as the Pinnacle, we didn't choose any options because they are really expensive, the only option is the screw conveyor. $ 108k, I don't really know what is going on with Mazak, because it seems that nobody is buying Mazak, I don't see any comments about Mazak in this forum.

Haas VF-3, with HSM, Renishaw edge finder and tool setter and screw conveyor.$ 92k

Doosan DNM4500 with the option of band conveyor $ 99k

I hope you can help me with your comments, I need to make the decision in 2 or 3 weeks because they already sold the 4 years old Haas.

Thanks

ArturoMeltri said:

Hello.

I hope you can help me to make a good decision.

We are looking to buy a new VMC, just to change one of the Haas machines we have which is 5 years old and my boss wants to change this Haas for a new machine.

We have 4 options and all of them are around the same price.

I have one option which seems to be a really good good good price, but we don't have that much reference from this machine. It is a Taiwanese Pinnacle LV105 (40" x 20" ) but includes band chip conveyor, TSC, Heidenhain glass scales in X, Y and Z, 15K rpm and Fanuc Control. $ 99k

Mazak VCEz20 which is the same size as the Pinnacle, we didn't choose any options because they are really expensive, the only option is the screw conveyor. $ 108k, I don't really know what is going on with Mazak, because it seems that nobody is buying Mazak, I don't see any comments about Mazak in this forum.

Haas VF-3, with HSM, Renishaw edge finder and tool setter and screw conveyor.$ 92k

Doosan DNM4500 with the option of band conveyor $ 99k

I hope you can help me with your comments, I need to make the decision in 2 or 3 weeks because they already sold the 4 years old Haas.

Thanks

Click to expand...

I've got no experience with Pinnacle. I'd be a little reluctant to purchase something like that, as the machine might be ok, but there may be little in the way of parts or support.

Mazak is expensive but a very, very good machine.
Haas is basic, but will get your work done.
I used to work for Doosan, so I'm a little partial to them. The DNM is an excellent value with good parts and support. TSC is standard, it is pre-wired for the probe and tool setter. The Fanuc control has almost every option, and the machine will give good life.

What are you doing?


More information = better answers

Not a Haas fan, but if you are familiar with it and it does what you want.....

ArturoMeltri said:

I don't see any comments about Mazak in this forum.

Click to expand...

Then you're not looking hard enough. Lots of people on here love Mazak machines.
I've never ran one so I can't comment on them.
Never heard of Pinnacle machines, but if your boss is considering spending $99k then surely there is a machine in that price range that is a lot better,no?

I would get the Haas, hands down. Mazak lathes are great, their verticals are not. In fact, we have a Mazak guy right now trying to figure out our machine on our dime. The Mazak service here is almost as bad as mastercam service. Haas has really good service in this area. I have run doosans. They are so so. Nothing special. I would never buy one because they do not impress me. The Haas are very user friendly and easy to go from an old one to a new one.

Haas, NO. I mean yes they are fine machines for what they are but they just aren't top tier machines. As others have said it is really hard to offer advice without knowing your needs...big steel work, or aluminum aerospace parts? These factors make a big difference.

I would look at Hurco. I have a lot of experience with Hurco. Yes I have Hurco machines, yes the company I used to work for had Hurco machines. Ive also run Mazak Fanuc Doosan Mighty Viper Hyundai and Haas. I like Hurco for a multitude of reasons, especially compared to Haas. I believe they are a tier above Haas. AN example is the feature set you get...a lot of the "add on" features you can buy with a Haas come standard on a Hurco. They are also more accurate. Put a Haas VF2 against a Hurco VM10i and I guarantee you the Hurco has a beefier spindle and overall more rigidity.

A 40x20 Hurco you can have in your price range. Our 26x16 machine has a lot of extra features as well as Renishaw probing and the retail price was $98k which included rigging, installation, and a $5000 tooling certificate. I would wager you can get a brand new Hurco 40x20 (VM20i) for less than 100K or around there. I am guessing a VMX30i is more like 150k tho.

Mazak is a rock solid brand depending on who you talk to. I personally love Mazak and dig their Mazatrol control. I wanted to buy them but too pricey for us. They are pricey depending on what line you get. I think they just released some newer machines that are more budget friendly. They are very popular, I am not sure what you mean when you say "not many people talk about them here"....they're one of the biggest machine tool builders in the world.

If your only picking from your list, Mazak and Doosan are my clear winners, others may disagree but I really believe you cannot go wrong with either of those machines.

We had all haas machines at one point and now we have all Mazaks. Got our first one in 2011 and it will be hard for anyone to sell me on anything else at this point. I vote Mazak.

gustafson said:

What are you doing?


More information = better answers

Not a Haas fan, but if you are familiar with it and it does what you want.....

Click to expand...

Hello, we build dies and tooling.

We cut mostly D2 and 4140PH, last year we bought a Taiwanese machine but from a different brand "Axile", and we have it
side by side with an Okuma Genos m560-V and the Axile wins by far, I think it is because of the control, but thats a different topic.

The Haas doesn't cut as would like because struggles with D2 a lot, thats why it is my last option.

Mtndew said:

Then you're not looking hard enough. Lots of people on here love Mazak machines.
I've never ran one so I can't comment on them.
Never heard of Pinnacle machines, but if your boss is considering spending $99k then surely there is a machine in that price range that is a lot better,no?

Click to expand...

Thats the problem, I don't find more options, the only options I have are the ones that I mentioned.

The situation is that Pinnacle is not well known brand but the equipment it has from standard is making me nervous.

If I quote the other brands Haas, Mazak and Doosan with those options they are surely above 120k.

ArturoMeltri said:

Thats the problem, I don't find more options, the only options I have are the ones that I mentioned.

The situation is that Pinnacle is not well known brand but the equipment it has from standard is making me nervous.

If I quote the other brands Haas, Mazak and Doosan with those options they are surely above 120k.

Click to expand...

Hyundai-Wia makes really good machines it would be worth it to get a quote from them also.

ArturoMeltri said:

Hello.

I hope you can help me to make a good decision.

We are looking to buy a new VMC, just to change one of the Haas machines we have which is 5 years old and my boss wants to change this Haas for a new machine.

We have 4 options and all of them are around the same price.

I have one option which seems to be a really good good good price, but we don't have that much reference from this machine. It is a Taiwanese Pinnacle LV105 (40" x 20" ) but includes band chip conveyor, TSC, Heidenhain glass scales in X, Y and Z, 15K rpm and Fanuc Control. $ 99k

Mazak VCEz20 which is the same size as the Pinnacle, we didn't choose any options because they are really expensive, the only option is the screw conveyor. $ 108k, I don't really know what is going on with Mazak, because it seems that nobody is buying Mazak, I don't see any comments about Mazak in this forum.

Haas VF-3, with HSM, Renishaw edge finder and tool setter and screw conveyor.$ 92k

Doosan DNM4500 with the option of band conveyor $ 99k

I hope you can help me with your comments, I need to make the decision in 2 or 3 weeks because they already sold the 4 years old Haas.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Doosan have positioned themselves to beat Haas in every category except the control.
If you don't mind a basic Fanuc control the Doosan is a good value.

Mazak is a premier builder, they really are not in the same class as Haas or Doosan.
If you can swing the Mazak, you might be able to program at the shop floor more efficiently which adds value for some shops.
Once options are added in the Mazak will likely be significantly more, Doosan offers several options as standard.

Service in your area is a big deal, maybe all three are bad in your area. If any of them are great it should make the choice much easier.

Curious why you're limited to those 4?
I'm not aware of a better value than an Okuma Genos 560v. If you need it 'right now' it'll probably be quite a bit over budget. But it's about value. You'd really have to work them to start to get close to the number. To me, I don't care about 10-15% on price, what hits your floor is far more important.
Gosh, I wish I had the 560V. I'm sure people will agree.
Doosan would be my second choice. their business has the right trajectory.

I'm starting to warm up to Hurco. I like their forth in the table, 5th in the head design.

Check out Quaser. We love ours. Solid machine.

ArturoMeltri said:

<snip>

Mazak VCEz20 which is the same size as the Pinnacle, we didn't choose any options because they are really expensive, the only option is the screw conveyor. $ 108k, I don't really know what is going on with Mazak, because it seems that nobody is buying Mazak, I don't see any comments about Mazak in this forum.

<snip>

Thanks

Click to expand...

VC EZ 20 ≠ VCN 570c etc.

OCTANE WORKHOLD said:

<snip>

Mazak is a premier builder, they really are not in the same class as Haas or Doosan.
If you can swing the Mazak, you might be able to program at the shop floor more efficiently which adds value for some shops.
Once options are added in the Mazak will likely be significantly more, Doosan offers several options as standard.

Service in your area is a big deal, maybe all three are bad in your area. If any of them are great it should make the choice much easier.

Click to expand...

ArturoMeltri said:

Hello, we build dies and tooling.

We cut mostly D2 and 4140PH, last year we bought a Taiwanese machine but from a different brand "Axile", and we have it
side by side with an Okuma Genos m560-V and the Axile wins by far, I think it is because of the control, but thats a different topic.

The Haas doesn't cut as would like because struggles with D2 a lot, thats why it is my last option.

Click to expand...

Wait, so you have this Axile VMC next to an Okuma M560, and it out-performs it? (no small feat) Why not get another Axile?!

wheelieking71 said:

Wait, so you have this Axile VMC next to an Okuma M560, and it out-performs it? (no small feat) Why not get another Axile?!

Click to expand...

hey Hello,

Yes it out-performs it but the cost is way to high, the Axile we bought was ordered by VW Mexico (PUEBLA) and due to the pandemic they paid only 1 machine, so the seller got in problems with them and decided to sell the other Axile VW ordered but in a low cost around $ 105k, this machine works better but the price they gave to me NOW was $ 145k...

They gave the $ 105k because we bought them in package 2 Sodick WDM and they did a discount.

I'm looking seriously at the VC-Ez 20 from Mazak I like the way it looks and all the comments I read on this thread are positive.

It's difficult to choose because in the area I live (Monterrey) is the most industrialized city of Mexico, so all brands have excellent service, all of them have local service.

Mazak, Haas, Okuma, Pinnacle and Axile have their service team in my city, so in service they are all the same.

We have a maximum budget of $ 105k, because we are selling a 2015 VF3, which works ok, but after working with our Axile my boss doesn't want to see Haas anymore.

Thanks.

OCTANE WORKHOLD said:

Doosan have positioned themselves to beat Haas in every category except the control.
If you don't mind a basic Fanuc control the Doosan is a good value.

Mazak is a premier builder, they really are not in the same class as Haas or Doosan.
If you can swing the Mazak, you might be able to program at the shop floor more efficiently which adds value for some shops.
Once options are added in the Mazak will likely be significantly more, Doosan offers several options as standard.

Service in your area is a big deal, maybe all three are bad in your area. If any of them are great it should make the choice much easier.

Click to expand...

Hello,

The big "problem" I have is that all of the brands I'm looking at have their service team in my city, so they are all the same.

I didn't knew Mazak had that much positive feedback or good reputation, in my city most of the shops have Okuma's insted of Mazak.

Tomorrow I'll try to get a good price of the Mazak.

Thanks

fmari --MariTool- said:

Check out Quaser. We love ours. Solid machine.

Click to expand...

What Quaser do you have? I like the layout of the UX500,Mazak UK has a model now with a similar kinematics. You know I am trying to remember who Quaser was before the name change? Sorry just realized I was rambling.

Charles

Ours is the MV184. We got the optional 60 tool atc. 40 taper dual contact.

They private label for Matsuura. Look at the VX1000, same machine.

fmari --MariTool- said:

Ours is the MV184. We got the optional 60 tool atc. 40 taper dual contact.

They private label for Matsuura. Look at the VX1000, same machine.

Click to expand...

Yea I know they used to make the Bridgeport machines. Methods used to sell some machines made by Litz, I think they are also now buying from Quaser. Have a great week.

I just remembered, I think they used to by YMT.

Charles