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Citizen L-25's and L-16's under $3k??

Hot Bob

Cast Iron
Joined
May 10, 2008
Location
Sanger, Texas / Westcliffe, Colorado
First, I am NOT a CNC guy. I once had a Matsuura RA-1 and learned to program it and run parts but, that doesn't mean I know anything. So, anyway...I'm kinda getting the itch to have a turning center. I have a number of small parts that I would like to produce for the knifemaking market. I doubt the diameter of stock I would ever need to use would exceed 1/2" but must of it would probably be titanium.

I keep seeing these Citizen L-25's and L16's for very low money. I'm assuming they are crapped out and honestly they look very complex to me. I just need a sanity check here. Are these machines as complex as they look? Are the parameters available if needed? Are there any other GT turning centers I should look at. Price is definitely a consideration as this project would be a case of designing parts for myself and then offering them to others. Not big money in that. It's okay to tell me this is a stupid idea.

Thanks guys,

Bob Ohlemann
www.RangermadeKnives.com
 
So... An L25 is not a gang tool machine, it's a Swiss machine. And yes, they're pretty complex. Granted the older ones don't have all the bells and whistles of the newer ones, but sometimes you're running 7+ axes at once. And trying not to crash anything into each other. You can use finger CAM for a surprising number of parts, but for complex (surfacing mainly) parts, you want a CAM system. Parameters should be available from your local Citizen reseller for a nominal fee. If you have little CNC experience, I don't know that programming and setting up a Swiss is the easiest thing to do... But it's not impossible either, you just go slow, ask questions, and keep your hand on the feed rate override knob.

I have to say though, for machines that go for $300K+ new, I'm not sure what condition a $3K machine will be in...
 
On older low end machines I would stick with Fanuc controls as they have the best availability of parts and service, as they are the most common. What controls do the L-series have? All the Citizen F's I ran back in the day had Fanucs.
 
On older low end machines I would stick with Fanuc controls as they have the best availability of parts and service, as they are the most common. What controls do the L-series have? All the Citizen F's I ran back in the day had Fanucs.

Depends on the age... The newer machines run Mits Meldas controls, but based on the price, I'd say these are old enough to have Fanucs. Not the worst thing, I learned on older A20s with Fanucs...
 
..... What controls do the L-series have? All the Citizen F's I ran back in the day had Fanucs.

Late 80s through mid 90s some Citizens used Yasnac as the base hardware. They had a Citizen U/I with some custom screens and a bunch of nice setup features that Citizen are known for. That being said, I'd be leery of one of those now. Yaskawa has been out of the CNC business for over 10 years and the control used by Citizen was not from the more common LX family of Yasnac controls. I suspect that replacement control parts will be scarce. The servo drives were from the common JANC family so replacements for those should still be pretty easy.
 
Had a really busy weekend so, it took me a while to get back to this. Apparently my old age is kicking in because I decided to go back through my old posts and I actually asked about Swiss machines a couple years ago. I think I was convinced at the time that they were not for me. Hopefully, I will remember this time. Thanks for the replies guys.

Bob
 
Honestly they would be better than a gang tooled lathe, once you get your head around them. They can open up a lot bigger range of work, there just harder to setup and a bit more limiting in that you can't run bigger stock than they can run, unlike a gang lathe were most can run pretty big lumps often even in a chuck, not just through spindle size restricted.

Biggest issue, sure the machines may only be $3K, but remember spares will still when available be as priced for a $300K machine!
 
Honestly they would be better than a gang tooled lathe, once you get your head around them. They can open up a lot bigger range of work, there just harder to setup and a bit more limiting in that you can't run bigger stock than they can run, unlike a gang lathe were most can run pretty big lumps often even in a chuck, not just through spindle size restricted.

Biggest issue, sure the machines may only be $3K, but remember spares will still when available be as priced for a $300K machine!

There are such things as gang tooled Swiss, vertical over head gang, but still considered gang tooled. Of course when most people think gang tooled they think a horizontal table, or a slanted table, fixed headstock style.
 
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