CME-Tools collet chuck run-out

I bought a set of five ER32 collet chucks and a collet set from cme-tools.com.

Their claim is <= 0.0002" run out.

I fitted a different size carbide mill in each and found that they all had high run-out (0.0007" etc.)

So for each chuck, I rotated the collet in the chuck 90° and retightened, and retested, and rotated again, and I seemed to be able to get <0.0001" run-out for each. In this way the run-out of the collet and chuck cancel each other when they are oriented just right. But only if you spend time iterating.

IS THIS NORMAL??

CME-Tools customer support says "we sell thousands of these and don't hear such a complaint".

In fact I notice most machinists don't normally test the run-out of tools at all, so perhaps when cme-tools customer support says this, it might be true.

I measured the run-out of a different brand in the bore of the ER32 taper, and did the same with the cme-tools bore.

CME-Tools is off 0.0005". The other brand was <0.0001" and also <0.0001" with the tool turned 180° in the spindle -- so it isn't my spindle.

Everyone seems to recommend Maritool but these seem really expensive. What about tpactool? Anyone use them?

Thanks

If you think Maritool is expensive, stick with fiddling around wasting time with your "budget" holders.

I use them but for reamers and drills and all things that go in a holder and stay there for a long time. drills and reamers don’t turn very fast they are 20 bucks for a holder collet and pull stud. I keep about every drill set up ready to go it saves a lot of time for me. I’m not saying they are the answer for every thing but for the price I’m happy with them
Don


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So your spindle is less than .0001" runout, and you want to put cheap ass holders in there?

Wait until you need a precision boring head, or larger face mill and inserts...

Tpac tools used to be pretty good but quality has fallen. They are very cheap. For cheap machines and startup shops I recommend these. For $200 they sell 10 holders and a set of collets.

Maritool is great not all that expensive either and made in the USA.

Shars is now about the same price as maritool but I got some specialty holders from them and they were very nice surprisingly but they were like I said almost the same price as maritool. Their pullstuds seem to be fine for fadal machines

I have tons of kennametal holders for km63 and not impressed at all. The steel seems soft and almost just wants to rust while no other holders rust in my shop???

Schunk hydraulics are nice.

I have a few haas tooling tool holders and they are good for the price. They had facemill kits (that’s holder facemill and inserts for $120) on sale so I bought a few to try. Surprised me as they were good. Very good.

Those are my opinions on the major holders I have in my shop. I have a few different brands aswell but those are the majority.

D Nelson said:

they are 20 bucks for a holder collet and pull stud

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There is absolutely no way in hell that I would put a pull stud that evidently costs a couple of dollars anywhere near any of my spindles.

Interesting - no one commented on run-out. It sounds like tool run-out is not something people usually bother measuring.

abbeyroad1124 said:

Interest - no one commented on run-out. It sounds like tool run-out is not something people usually bother measuring.

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It depends on what you're doing. Measuring runout takes time.

I have some tools that I measure runout every time, I have some tools that I never bother. I have some tools that I measure circular and coaxial runout.

ER collets are what they are. You have to buy high quality collets and holders to have any kind of guaranteed runout numbers. Cheap ones always make claims that they can't deliver.

abbeyroad1124 said:

Interest - no one commented on run-out. It sounds like tool run-out is not something people usually bother measuring.

Click to expand...

It's also possible there's a correlation between people who bother to check it and people who don't have problems with it because they buy quality tools. As mentioned above, saving money by buying budget holders is going to cost you money after you begin using them. It's like the old Fram oil filter ads- you can pay now, or you can pay later.

abbeyroad1124 said:

Interesting - no one commented on run-out. It sounds like tool run-out is not something people usually bother measuring.

Click to expand...

I didn’t mention run out in my above post because I was lazy to write it.

Tpac tool holders for $20 each used to all be under .0002” in the taper. Their collets are a gamble though. Typically the Chinese collets I’ll by several and expect some unusable ones but still a lot cheaper than buying better collets. The Chinese collets are funny I’ll get a batch that have sharp edges and burrs etc then I’ll get another batch that compares to my name brand collets in fit and finish. Really luck of the draw. They seem to have lots of Friday evening in the China factory. I like to have these holders to set up all manor of drills in holders and be able to leave them in there and tag them with the z offset for when I need them. I probably have about 70 tool holder assemblies for one machine (only have one cat40 machine in the shop)

All other holders I mentioned are very good in the run out department.

Shars holders are probably up there in quality the grind on the taper is probably the smoothest of all the brands I mentioned. That means nothing as far as fit but it is very well finished.

Schunk hydraulics are in a like new 27k spindle I didn’t measure run out but it runs smooth at 25k rpm all day. I imagine it’s fine.

Kennametal holders are made of soft steel. They ding very easily and deform. If they weren’t practically the only source for km63xmz I would not buy their holders.

Maritool is not the best holder I’ve ever used but I’ve never received junk from them and they are very reasonably priced. We ordered like 14 facemills with arbors from them and they all are very close in z heights and well finished. Still waiting for frank to send me a t shirt…

Ianagos said:

Kennametal holders are made of soft steel. They ding very easily and deform. If they weren’t practically the only source for km63xmz I would not buy their holders.

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Last I knew, Kennametal holders were made in India, and yes, they are pretty garbage. I discovered that after I bought a dozen or so Kennametal SK50 ER40 holders and eventually returned the whole lot. That was probably about 10 years ago though, idk what the situation is now.

I buy Sandvik, Iscar/Tungaloy, Schunk and WNT (idk who the toolholding OEMs are for WNT, but they are very high quality. I suspect it is Gewefa and Haimer) for quality toolholders and collets.

I have a large quantity of cheap ER holders that I bought from Cutwel here in the UK, they deal mainly with Korean brands, and some of these are YG1 and others are unbranded. They are marginal and I tend to use them only for drills and taps. I no longer buy collets from there as they routinely exceed their stated runout, sometimes by an order of magnitude or more.

I have a rule to never cheap out on pullstuds, and touch wood, I have yet to have a pullstud failure.

gregormarwick said:

Last I knew, Kennametal holders were made in India, and yes, they are pretty garbage. I discovered that after I bought a dozen or so Kennametal SK50 ER40 holders and eventually returned the whole lot. That was probably about 10 years ago though, idk what the situation is now.

I buy Sandvik, Iscar/Tungaloy, Schunk and WNT (idk who the toolholding OEMs are for WNT, but they are very high quality. I suspect it is Gewefa and Haimer) for quality toolholders and collets.

I have a large quantity of cheap ER holders that I bought from Cutwel here in the UK, they deal mainly with Korean brands, and some of these are YG1 and others are unbranded. They are marginal and I tend to use them only for drills and taps. I no longer buy collets from there as they routinely exceed their stated runout, sometimes by an order of magnitude or more.

I have a rule to never cheap out on pullstuds, and touch wood, I have yet to have a pullstud failure.

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Most of the kennametal holders are made in Germany or USA. A few are made in Taiwan. Still for the price it’s pretty sad

Ianagos said:

Most of the kennametal holders are made in Germany or USA. A few are made in Taiwan. Still for the price it’s pretty sad

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Do Kennametal still use the Erickson brand?

I just looked in the rack and found a Kennametal Erickson SK50 holder right now that says "Made in India" on it...

Not sure exactly how old it is, but it's not super old.

gregormarwick said:

Do Kennametal still use the Erickson brand?

I just looked in the rack and found a Kennametal Erickson SK50 holder right now that says "Made in India" on it...

Not sure exactly how old it is, but it's not super old.

Click to expand...

The boxes sometimes say Erickson depends on what exactly it is I think.

We have an onsite tool managing company doing the tool sourcing. We got tools and holders from major brands in the US. One of the main ER32 holders suppliers we buy from is Sowa Tool, a tool importer. Their collet chuck stuffs are usually made in Taiwan, while side lock holders made in China (used to be Taiwan). They sell 5-micron ER32-AA for about same price as regular ER32 offered by Techniks. They work pretty well for me. Last time I bought Kennametal ER32 holders, they were made in Slovakia. They were decent. The only reason I ever bought Kennametal holders is the black oxide coating which offers a bit of a grip and rust protection. Others cut corners buy keeping the whole bodies bright.