CNC Billet Wheel Making ???

Rider · May 4, 2004

Hi all, I am new to this and have been thinking which machine would be the best to use in making automotive T6 aluminum wheels.

The two machines I have seen was that of a Viper 950 Vertical Machining Center CNC and that of a Haas VF-5 20 HP Vertical Machining Center. The first question I would have to ask which machine should be best to use if either machine or should a Lathe CNC.

The next question would be if I were to make a 2 piece wheel and weld the centre billet to the main outer rim, which welder would be of good choice.

doug925 · May 4, 2004

Rider, any good cnc mill can make the rims, provided it has enough y axis travel. You will need a min. of 20"
The faster it can spin means the faster you can cut the blank. Go for the higher rpm. Don't bother going above 12K, b/c then you will enter into the realm of HSM. That can be scarey! Seriously though, HSM is a different animal then just hogging off material.

As to the mills you listed, I am partial to Haas
There are other mills specially designed to manufacture rims. IIRC Okuma, I think

JRIowa · May 4, 2004

Rider,

The "big boys" don't make rims on a mill. They all use lathes with live tooling in the turret. Most of them have gone to polycrystaline diamond tooling. They usually make the rims in 2 set-ups or 2 machines. I saw 2 Mazaks turning cast rims. They were finishing a rim every 3 minutes.

surplusjohn · May 4, 2004

are they using castings or forgings? for stock? Billet wastes a heck of a lot of material

JRIowa · May 4, 2004

John,

What I saw being machined looked like a high quality shell casting (almost investment cast quality). They were running about 1K rpm to do the OD of a 16" wheel. The cell had a robot loader and one operator. It was impressive.

JR

Rider · May 5, 2004

Thanks for the great posts guy's.

I realize in making the rims out of billet there tends to be alot of waste, and that is the thought of using the centre section of billet and the outer of norm aluminum to cut back on waste.

I do not want to go the rought of using cast aluminum for the quality is not there for polished rims.

Ries · May 6, 2004

Billet is normal aluminum.
Billet is currently used by hot rod and custom motorcycle guys to mean " a big block of aluminum". When they say "machined from billet" it just means machined from bar, or a block of aluminum.
Some of the designs from companies like Boyds need to be machined from a big block. And at the prices they charge- $500 to $2000 and up per wheel- they can afford to go with the uneconomical method of hogging off from a big block. Mass produced, low price wheels are stamped from thin sheet- almost no waste.
If you are really gonna make a lot of em, you need yourself a robot welder- running either mig, or tig, depending on your price point.

Rich Carlstedt · May 6, 2004

Forged Aluminum "billets" would make perfect sense here..Very consistent density, no porosity and least material to remove..
Cast would be a no-no due to safety IMHO

Ries · May 6, 2004

Its true you can have aluminum forged into a billet, and use that to machine a wheel. Or forged into rings for the rim.
But most of the hot rod guys, who sell "billet" gear shift knobs, or mirror brackets, or even door lock knobs, are not working with forgings. "Billet" has become a trendy catch all phrase for anything made from aluminum.
I have seen "billet" parts in some of the hot rod mags that were cut from bar stock, and drilled. Nada Mas.
And I doubt if very many of the machined custom wheels use actual forgings either- to most of them, "billet" means call up the dealer and order a saw cut block.

JRIowa · May 6, 2004

Probably 99% of the aluminum wheels on new cars are cast. Most of them are "shell" cast which produces a fairly accurate part.

Porosity is a function of the foundry and the molding process. The "shell" will have much less porosity than a green sand cast part. If you have a good foundry that knows what they're doing, scrap do to porosity should be less than .05% of the parts made.

JR

Rider · May 6, 2004

All info I have been getting from here is great. Thanks guy's

I have watched Boyds make a few rims. And not all were of one solid piece of billet but of a centred machined and welding to the outer rim. That is why I stated normal aluminum for the centres were of forged. I also owned a few different rim styles from various companies from Weld, Centerline and Billet Specialties. For the most part the centres were welded inserts.

[This message has been edited by Rider (edited 05-06-2004).]

doug925 · May 6, 2004

I have made rims , by way of making a center section that is then attached to a "hoop". You can be fairly cost efective with them.

Crager(sp?) makes them using forged billits. They start off with a 1'x 4" dia bar of 6061. Then the heat the dog sh#$ out of it, compress it in a BIG press, and then the 1'x4" billit has become a 4" x 16" billit. They heat treat it back to temper, and machine from there.

The machine shops that make rims for American Chopper, Billy Lane, Chip Fuse ect. start with a BIG pc. of aluminum and hog it all out. They are $$$$$$$ sometimes more than 3K ea. rim!

Figure out the $, take 35 hrs x your shop rate+ material cost of 1K = expensive!

Tumbleweed Tim · May 7, 2004

I saw someone’s set up brand new at Okuma in Los Angeles last week. It was 2 Okuma 2 spindle vertical lathes opposed with a robot in the middle and a Chiron mill down at the end all fed by the robot. They had it set up and getting ready to run for a customer buy off. Did not see it run but they had a pallet of rim blanks sitting there ready to go. Must have been a million dollars worth of stuff there. I was thinking, hmm, my 2 axis lathe probably is not a BIG deal to these guys, but they still treat me like I am important.

[This message has been edited by Tumbleweed Tim (edited 05-07-2004).]

gglines · May 7, 2004

I read that Jesse James charges up to $25K per set of motorcycle wheels. Of course, there are two of them, so that's quite a bargain.

George

WILLEO6709 · May 8, 2004

and he has most of the customers who have the money to spend on such things.... don't expect 25k a pair.....

1QuikGN · May 9, 2004

http://www.allamericanwheel.com

They can supply you with everthing you need. CNC milling is the way to go, when making wheels.

QuickStickz · Dec 31, 2020

1QuikGN said:
allamericanwheel.com

They can supply you with everthing you need. CNC milling is the way to go, when making wheels.

I'll have to disagree with CNC Milling as the best way to make wheels. Using a CNC Lathe with live tooling would be the best way to go. You will never get a CNC mill to cut as round and true as a properly maintained lathe. CNC Mills have to reverse every time the axis change direction so if there is any slop in the ball screws especially on encoder machines there will be some non true areas. Lathes never have this issue. Even if you have scales on the mill there will be some dwell while the machine tries to make in position requirements before the control lets it continue movement. Round parts should always be made on a lathe whenever possible.

Dan from Oakland · Jan 5, 2021

Reply to a 16 year old thread- might just be a PM award for this!

Guest · Jan 5, 2021

Dan from Oakland said:
Reply to a 16 year old thread- might just be a PM award for this!

I think that is a record and he is not a spammer. Usually it is spammers bumping ancient threads.

doug925 · Jan 5, 2021

QuickStickz said:
I'll have to disagree with CNC Milling as the best way to make wheels. Using a CNC Lathe with live tooling would be the best way to go. You will never get a CNC mill to cut as round and true as a properly maintained lathe. CNC Mills have to reverse every time the axis change direction so if there is any slop in the ball screws especially on encoder machines there will be some non true areas. Lathes never have this issue. Even if you have scales on the mill there will be some dwell while the machine tries to make in position requirements before the control lets it continue movement. Round parts should always be made on a lathe whenever possible.

Since you pointed out mills vs lathes for the round parts, here is a member that makes them (as a side part of the business) and his cell for producing them.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...day-314859/?highlight=okuma+rim+wheel+machine

CNC Billet Wheel Making ???

Plastic

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Plastic

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Plastic

Titanium

Stainless

Aluminum

Diamond

1QuikGN

Guest

Plastic

Titanium

Guest

Guest

Titanium

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