CNC MACHINE TECH needed in Northern California

Short version: I need a tech that can replace an X axis screw/nut/bearings (not sure which) on my Haas VF-2. Machine is down, so the sooner the better. It would be good to have a local tech in my rolodex anyway.


Long version: My Haas is making out of round holes and the X axis is pretty noisy, need to get it fixed. The machine is down because it can't hold the tolerances we need to on the parts we have now, and the jobs coming up. My fault, I should have been much more proactive about it. Called Selway on Tuesday, scheduled a tech for Friday. Today is Friday, got a call saying the tech didn't show up for work and now he'll be here Monday. And Selway doesn't carry repair parts like they used to, so even though they know it's very likely the X screw/bearings/whatever, they won't be bringing parts with them. First visit is to diagnose, then order parts, then second visit to repair. So $1,000 of travel time instead of $500 plus the added downtime... who knows when they might be back. In years past, the machine would be fixed by now.

I also called to see if they would add replacing the backup battery since it's 11 years old now. I told the guy on the phone (very helpful guy, they still have good phone support) that I already bought the dual battery replacement kit, but the damn thing doesn't plug in to my board. He verified that the Coldfire I stuff is like that. So then he tells me flat out that there are only a couple techs that know what they are doing and he wasn't sure who would be coming to the shop, so we would have to play the battery replacement part by ear. Are you fucking kidding me?

I sure wish I could offload the Haas for a downpayment on another Brother. But after the fire we have been hot/cold and am having a very hard time finding employees, and that would just be too much risk, even for my dumb ass.

Been in that situation. (pretty much why I'm all Brother in milling now) Stressful and frustrating. Wishing you luck!
Unfortunately I don't have a name to give you.......

Thanks Mike. If you're in the area I could use a hug.......

you might try programming a circle in 90* arcs.. I made parts for years on a VARY loose bridgeport boss by changing over to 90* arcs and changing the I / J center point ... yes it was some playing around to get it to work but once I got the numbers down it worked great.

Put a indicator between your table and the end of the ball screw ,, if you have movement there its in your thrust bearing on your ball screw mount .... (vary easy fix and to get you by for a few weeks just shim the bearing ) if there is no movement there its going to be a loose ball nut or ball nut mount ... unless the machine has had the crap pounded out of it I don`t see a ball nut going bad on a 8 year old machine.

Have you checked to see if someone has screwed with the backlash setting in the control? if there set wrong you would be getting out of round holes.

D.D.Machine said:

Put a indicator between your table and the end of the ball screw ,, if you have movement there its in your thrust bearing on your ball screw mount .... (vary easy fix and to get you by for a few weeks just shim the bearing ) if there is no movement there its going to be a loose ball nut or ball nut mount ... unless the machine has had the crap pounded out of it I don`t see a ball nut going bad on a 8 year old machine.

Have you checked to see if someone has screwed with the backlash setting in the control? if there set wrong you would be getting out of round holes.

Click to expand...

Since the X has been noisy for quite awhile now, I've been keeping my eye on it by putting an indicator on the spindle, setting it to a fixed part of a vise, then pushing the axis one way, then the other. That's the same test as table/end of screw, right? Lost motion. The table comes back to within .0001" of its' starting point in both directions.

Then checking backlash, the Y is perfect, and the X actually jumps .0001" on axis reversal, but it's done that for years. So these two tests show no issues whatsoever.

But then it makes .0007" TIR out of round holes, and even though the probe has been calibrated several times recently (and verified to within .0003" max location error with a DTI), when I probe a feature, update a work offset, then make another feature, that second feature is about .0006 to .0008" off in X location from the probed feature. That doesn't make any damn sense to me, which is why I just want a pro to look it over.

Level is off a little (two divisions on my .0005"/foot level), but all machine feet have weight on them.

Does Haas have a page where you can watch following error on the servo's? How is it out of round? On 45 degrees, or on one axis vs the other? When was the last time the keepers for the y axis were checked/tightened?

I'd take that extra .0001 out of the X backlash if it occurs everywhere.

Matt@RFR said:

Short version: I need a tech that can replace an X axis screw/nut/bearings (not sure which) on my Haas VF-2. Machine is down, so the sooner the better. It would be good to have a local tech in my rolodex anyway.


Long version: My Haas is making out of round holes and the X axis is pretty noisy, need to get it fixed. The machine is down because it can't hold the tolerances we need to on the parts we have now, and the jobs coming up. My fault, I should have been much more proactive about it. Called Selway on Tuesday, scheduled a tech for Friday. Today is Friday, got a call saying the tech didn't show up for work and now he'll be here Monday. And Selway doesn't carry repair parts like they used to, so even though they know it's very likely the X screw/bearings/whatever, they won't be bringing parts with them. First visit is to diagnose, then order parts, then second visit to repair. So $1,000 of travel time instead of $500 plus the added downtime... who knows when they might be back. In years past, the machine would be fixed by now.

I also called to see if they would add replacing the backup battery since it's 11 years old now. I told the guy on the phone (very helpful guy, they still have good phone support) that I already bought the dual battery replacement kit, but the damn thing doesn't plug in to my board. He verified that the Coldfire I stuff is like that. So then he tells me flat out that there are only a couple techs that know what they are doing and he wasn't sure who would be coming to the shop, so we would have to play the battery replacement part by ear. Are you fucking kidding me?

I sure wish I could offload the Haas for a downpayment on another Brother. But after the fire we have been hot/cold and am having a very hard time finding employees, and that would just be too much risk, even for my dumb ass.

Click to expand...

Matt,

Here is website for CMS (Complete Machine Solutions)in Fremont. Eya and his group have been servicing our Fadals for years, but he also does Haas and few others. Talk with Eya directly; not sure how far north he will travel. Might be worth a shot.

Complete Machine Solutions

Good luck.

Fred

Edit: Sorry if I misread your post and you really want someone up in Paradise area. Eya may be able to suggest the name of a tech closer to you. FS

Freds said:

Matt,

Here is website for CMS (Complete Machine Solutions)in Fremont. Eya and his group have been servicing our Fadals for years, but he also does Haas and few others. Talk with Eya directly; not sure how far north he will travel. Might be worth a shot.

Complete Machine Solutions

Good luck.

Fred

Edit: Sorry if I misread your post and you really want someone up in Paradise area. Eya may be able to suggest the name of a tech closer to you. FS

Click to expand...

Im sure for some extra cash Eya will show up and fix it. I miss that guy! He always took care of us and super fair pricing / prompt service. Just a stand up place.
Only get to see him every few years when he comes by to say hi now that our fadals are all gone.

Matt@RFR said:

Since the X has been noisy for quite awhile now, I've been keeping my eye on it by putting an indicator on the spindle, setting it to a fixed part of a vise, then pushing the axis one way, then the other. That's the same test as table/end of screw, right? Lost motion. The table comes back to within .0001" of its' starting point in both directions.

Then checking backlash, the Y is perfect, and the X actually jumps .0001" on axis reversal, but it's done that for years. So these two tests show no issues whatsoever.

But then it makes .0007" TIR out of round holes, and even though the probe has been calibrated several times recently (and verified to within .0003" max location error with a DTI), when I probe a feature, update a work offset, then make another feature, that second feature is about .0006 to .0008" off in X location from the probed feature. That doesn't make any damn sense to me, which is why I just want a pro to look it over.

Level is off a little (two divisions on my .0005"/foot level), but all machine feet have weight on them.

Click to expand...

Sorry this isn't any help. We had our thermal comp param messed with one time by an inexperienced tech and what a nightmare!! Be sure to ask tech lots of questions if they start getting into any of this, like "DO YOU HAVE BACKUPS FOR MY MACHINE AND SOFTWARE IN CASE YOU SCREW THEM????!!??"

Put an indicator in the spindle or on a fixed part of the machine

Push and pull the table left/right as hard as you can. A small crowbar works ok. Measure the total movement of the table. For arguments sake lets say it's .003"

Pull off the way covers and put the indicator needle on the end of the leadscrew. Do the same right/left push pulling and measure the movement of the leadscrew.

If the leadscrew moves .003 then your leadscrew thrust bearings are shot. If the leadscrew doesn't move then the leadscrew nut is shot. If it moves .002" then you have .002" play in the bearings, and .001" play in the nut etc etc.

I don't know what the Haas leadscrew thrust bearings are like, but on a Fadal their considered a normal service item requiring fairly regular replacement. Should be 1-3 hours to replace.

you don`t want to push of pull on the table to check the backlash .... you want to JOG the machine .. tell machine to jog like .01 one way then .01 the other way ,,, you should be seeing it move .01 on the indicator.

all machines well flex when you push and pull on them.

D.D.Machine said:

you don`t want to push of pull on the table to check the backlash .... you want to JOG the machine .. tell machine to jog like .01 one way then .01 the other way ,,, you should be seeing it move .01 on the indicator.

all machines well flex when you push and pull on them.

Click to expand...

What I described is a method to find out whether the backlash is in the nut, thrust bearings or both.

I can't believe that they wouldn't have thrusts on the truck!

Sounds like they are trying to make service calls that much more profitable - rather than a good service to sell more machines later.

Sure sounds like they are shooting themselves in the hoof.
Is this SOP for all Haas dealers these days, or just them?


Good luck Mathew!
It sounds like you are dooing well considering what you have went through!
Keep up the good fight!




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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Hi Matt:

Just sent you a PM...

Hang in there!

Cheers, Brian

Ox said:

I can't believe that they wouldn't have thrusts on the truck!

Sounds like they are trying to make service calls that much more profitable - rather than a good service to sell more machines later.

Sure sounds like they are shooting themselves in the hoof.
Is this SOP for all Haas dealers these days, or just them?


Good luck Mathew!
It sounds like you are dooing well considering what you have went through!
Keep up the good fight!




-----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Click to expand...

Motor seized on our vm2 a few months ago. Tech said he was only allowed to survey the machine on the first day and make sure the right parts were sent. I talked him into doing a full inspection on it, helped him out though as he would have had to go to another place lol.

Funny thing was, the motor that seized was a baldor and the replacement was a yaskawa, they changed the coupler too so we needed to change the spindle with it.

Years ago - back when Hardinge service was still Hardinge Service, I needed something done, and that scenario was how it usually was handled as well, but then Hardinge had way too many different things out there to cover to really send guys around with parts on board. They typically drive cars that barely carry all their tools.

I don't remember what the issue was at the time, but it seems like it was board level control issue?

I told them to NDA any board or ??? that would/could be likely culprits so that they were here when the tech arrived, and we'd send back what we didn't need as I didn't need to pay $6-$800 travel time 2wice!

They appeased me, and the machine was running by the end of the next day as far as I recall.


Now, on the other hand, the EMCO service tech that stopped by on his way past one day many years ago (was a member here at the time) showed up in a 4wd 3/4 ton truck!
IDK if he had any parts in there or not?

I wonder if smash and grab issues have plagued Haas service vans over the years - possibly having something to doo with the change in policy?
There are plenty of vee-hickles* going down the road with a lot of $ in the back that no-one knows about, but that Haas van - you KNOW [knew?] about!
I can't imagine a service tech parking his truck at a motel for the night if he had $100K in bearings and electrical gee-whiz's in there?
Wouldn't be staying at Motel 6!
Better be staying at the Marriot or the Hilton group on the outside of town!

I know that the Fanuc service guy on the other side of the state line has a SUV full of amps and ???
Unfortunately he's not allowed to cross over to my area....
In all fairness, I don't know the Fanuc guy in my area. He may have an Excursion full and I just don't know about it?



* In my best Rizzo voice


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Is it possible to bore/ream the holes for a while, until you get your machine fixed?

Try Tony Bacon at CNC ballscrew repair.
I talk to him often and I know he travels all over the western US.

I personally haven't been further north to work on a machine than the Fresno area. Can't imagine the bill to get me that far.

See if whoever you get, can do the work with parts already on hand.

gbent said:

Does Haas have a page where you can watch following error on the servo's? How is it out of round? On 45 degrees, or on one axis vs the other? When was the last time the keepers for the y axis were checked/tightened?

I'd take that extra .0001 out of the X backlash if it occurs everywhere.

Click to expand...

I should have clarified, it's out of round at the axis reversal points. At this point I think I may have been suckered in to thinking it's the X because it's loud (and feels gravely like a bad bearing when turning the screw by hand). With an indicator and a large bore, I can see the typical axis reversal dip, but as big as .0005", maybe .0006", but then it looks like the axis over corrects, then oscillates a couple times until it settles in to a nice round arc again. Seems more electronic to me than mechanical, but that's why I wanted a pro to take a peek.

triumph406 said:

Put an indicator in the spindle or on a fixed part of the machine

Push and pull the table left/right as hard as you can. A small crowbar works ok. Measure the total movement of the table. For arguments sake lets say it's .003"

Click to expand...

Got .0003" max with a larg-ish screwdriver. Returned to zero within .0001" both ways.

Pull off the way covers and put the indicator needle on the end of the leadscrew. Do the same right/left push pulling and measure the movement of the leadscrew.

Click to expand...

Got .0001" max both ways, so .0002" total movement. Seems mechanically sound to me?

D.D.Machine said:

you don`t want to push of pull on the table to check the backlash .... you want to JOG the machine .. tell machine to jog like .01 one way then .01 the other way ,,, you should be seeing it move .01 on the indicator.

all machines well flex when you push and pull on them.

Click to expand...

That's exactly what I did.

Ox said:

I can't believe that they wouldn't have thrusts on the truck!

Sounds like they are trying to make service calls that much more profitable - rather than a good service to sell more machines later.

Sure sounds like they are shooting themselves in the hoof.
Is this SOP for all Haas dealers these days, or just them?

Click to expand...

They are definitely shooting themselves in the foot with me, that's for sure! I know people are getting sick of hearing about Brothers and Yamazen, but it's the real deal and really shines a light on what a machine and a service company CAN be.

Good luck Mathew!
It sounds like you are dooing well considering what you have went through!
Keep up the good fight!

Click to expand...

Thanks everybody for the well wishes! I didn't think anybody would remember let alone care.

It's been a nightmare to be honest. My main guy didn't come back after the fire, and the other guy had only been here a couple weeks, so when we got back to work, it was with two brand new guys. One I fired a couple weeks ago for constantly ruining parts even after we had them running nice, and showing no signs of "getting it". The other guy, who I hired as an "advanced operator" is getting it slowly, but only after scrapping the entirety of a $12,000 job, and we only found it after plating. I walked away from it feeling like he was comfortable, and he was. Sizes of features were all fine, however he somehow failed to blow out the soft jaws well enough (or at all??), leaving all kinds of chips for the parts to get dented on, to the point that locations were mostly out of tolerance because the parts weren't seating. It was a mess. I know that's all on me, but god damnit I never dreamed I would have to tell an "advanced operator" to 1) blow the chips out of the jaws, and 2) look at your parts and if there are so many dents from chips that the damn things look like the surface of the moon, stop!

So between that job, the (latest) job the other guy scrapped, and now the parts our customer is rejecting because the Haas isn't playing nice, we are throwing away all that work and have at least 4 weeks of work to do to get back to where we should have been last month, and we can't even start to do that on some of it until the Haas is fixed. 1 month with no income, plus regular overhead, plus overhead for all the shit that got scrapped, plus every job taking too long because nobody knows what "hustle" is anymore.

I had one really promising guy roll through, got shit done, had some mechanical skills so I didn't constantly get the dear-in-the-headlights stare (which I'm getting real tired of), just seemed like he would work out really well here. Well he called in on day #3 saying how he found a job in town on a cleanup crew for $50/hr so he was out. Well, I can't compete with that, so it seems like we are scraping the bottom of the barrel for people right now. That coupled with the fact that I've always been a very poor judge of people, we are going to be hurting for quite awhile I'm afraid. That reminds me; I was supposed to interview somebody tonight... didn't show and never called. But currently that's my only and best candidate.

And meanwhile, my main customer is still screaming bloody murder for parts because of all our screw ups, but also because apparently there were a lot of failures from other shops that tried to do our work while we were shut down after the fire.

cnctoolcat said:

Is it possible to bore/ream the holes for a while, until you get your machine fixed?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, we still would have to threadmill the parts, which would still throw things off. These are very non-standard parts (and a non-standard thread, of course), and the thread size and location is a huge part of them working or not working.

To everybody who gave techs to call, thank you! I got sidetracked with building repair stuff today, but will be calling on Monday. The Haas tech is supposed to be here on Monday as well, but I really need to figure something out for the future.