CNC machines with Relocation Detected devices question
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  1. #1
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    Default CNC machines with Relocation Detected devices question

    Mazak for example ... is it possible to move one from day PA to SC without tripping the RD sensor ? Wondering if careful load/unload plus mostly level grades might be ok such that only ocean transport might trip it ?

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    Our dealer told us we could maybe roll it a few feet on the shop floor, any more would require a reset-code from Mazak

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    Mazak for example ... is it possible to move one from day PA to SC without tripping the RD sensor ? Wondering if careful load/unload plus mostly level grades might be ok such that only ocean transport might trip it ?
    I've NO klew what they use, now nor in any earlier era, but.. from OTHER work?

    We've had seriously tiny "GPS" location goods as commodity building blocks for rather a long time, already. These know WHERE they are. Shock not a factor.

    Your 'level', 'careful' hints you are thinking of simple acclerometers such as laptop disk drives and motorcar adaptive suspension utilize? At-odds with the potential for vibration?

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    I would imagine it would be easier to defeat/emulate the signal from then sensor rather than trying to avoid triggering it. I have no idea how they work or are interfaced but you can bet your last dollar if I owned a machine that had one I would spend more time and money eliminating it than I should.

    If someone can build it than someone can unbuild it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardplates View Post
    I would imagine it would be easier to defeat/emulate the signal from then sensor rather than trying to avoid triggering it. I have no idea how they work or are interfaced but you can bet your last dollar if I owned a machine that had one I would spend more time and money eliminating it than I should.

    If someone can build it than someone can unbuild it!
    Me too, LOL.

    I'm wondering, what's the purpose of the sensor?

    I can understand the reasoning if it's in financing, etc.

    Is it to keep the Iranians from making nukes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    Me too, LOL.

    I'm wondering, what's the purpose of the sensor?

    I can understand the reasoning if it's in financing, etc.

    Is it to keep the Iranians from making nukes?
    I think iit has to do with export and ITAR crap

    Kind of like how in the past you could have 2 identical machines and one was a machining center and the other was a drill tap center. It was a way of circumventing the import export bullshit

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post

    Is it to keep the Iranians from making nukes?
    Yup. But to stop anyone using them to make nukes not just Iranians. It is against the Japanese laws to sell machine tools to make weapons of mass destruction. If you move the machines with sensors, you probably would need the builder to come out and reset the sensor after they approve your usage.

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    Is it really that big a deal? Don't get me wrong, it is annoying, but even if your dealer sucks and wants to charge you for an hour to put in the code --- that's pretty minimal compared to the cost of moving the damn thing.

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    I was told by a dealer the reason is they don't want them used for weapons. So if you get machine delivered to Shop A that makes rainbows and butterflies, then try and move it to Shop B that makes weapons they would know. SO my guess it its GPS based, cause they have been know to trigger even when moving within the same building.

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    We successfully moved a couple of our Mori's within the shop without upsetting anything.

    I'm certain PA to SC would trigger it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    Is it really that big a deal? Don't get me wrong, it is annoying, but even if your dealer sucks and wants to charge you for an hour to put in the code --- that's pretty minimal compared to the cost of moving the damn thing.
    Very often the charge is much more than just and hour time. Unless of course you think $2000 to $5000 per hour a reasonable rate.
    In most cases disconcerting the senors on the move will not work.
    Makers have been burned so they put this stuff in with all the added cost and pain to customers.
    Do the big bow down to your elected officials so that Iran can't produce a super gun.
    Someone has to pay for this and it it the consumer or the product.
    Myself I find it silly to no end but it is the rules.

    One would think that there are those that would hack this but not talk about it.
    Bob

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    I looked at the interfacing on a 5 axis Mazak with one. It was not just something one could easily defeat by just disconnecting a couple wires. I'm pretty sure that with a bit of time one could figure out and build a circuit to emulate the signals and timing the control wants to see on power up. More trouble than it seemed worth unless one was looking to illegally export a machine. When I did this about 9 years ago, the Mazak dealer had quoted about $100 to re-enable the device after a move.

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    All Mazaks have this, or just the fancy ones?

    Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk

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    I suspect if you have the brainpower to build a nuke, you have the brainpower to defeat the sensor.

    On a side note, I am pretty sure they built plenty of nukes pre-cnc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mebfab View Post
    I suspect if you have the brainpower to build a nuke, you have the brainpower to defeat the sensor.

    On a side note, I am pretty sure they built plenty of nukes pre-cnc.
    I would suspect it has more to do with making the equipment to enrich the uranium 235. The actual weapon itself is the simpler part of the equation.

    Also it's a guess but the sensor is likely easy to defeat, its once the control has been triggered by it that it turns into a nightmare coding issue. Kinda like an airbag, if you unhook the sensor before the bag goes off it won't go off, but if you unhook it after its deployed it doesn't magically go back in

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Very often the charge is much more than just and hour time. Unless of course you think $2000 to $5000 per hour a reasonable rate.
    Bob
    Really??? If this is true, please put the dealers' names on here so we can shame them.

    I have gone to multiple customers sites and reset the codes as a courtesy while working for two major brands which have relocation devices on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    All Mazaks have this, or just the fancy ones?...
    Don't know how far across the range they were installed. The particular machine I looked at was just out of curiosity as to how the system worked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    Me too, LOL.

    I'm wondering, what's the purpose of the sensor?

    I can understand the reasoning if it's in financing, etc.

    Is it to keep the Iranians from making nukes?
    It is because nobody wants to be the next Toshiba.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mebfab View Post
    I suspect if you have the brainpower to build a nuke, you have the brainpower to defeat the sensor.

    On a side note, I am pretty sure they built plenty of nukes pre-cnc.

    This is what I am confused about.

    Or, they could set up the machine in a building with a cover-up industry such as making widgets for doohickies. Then as soon as they get the approval they bring the real parts to the machine.

    Should they put GPS trackers on micrometers and DTIs too, and not allow them to ship to Iran or Syria?

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    How much do they charge to reset everything? Sounds like a scam to squeeze every dime they can out of a customer to me. Some of the stuff going on these days how businesses treat customers boggles the mind. I don't even remember what it was and it might have been 10 years ago or more I called Takisawa to ask if they had a part I needed including price and delivery time. They told me I had to pay a $300 fee to register my machine with them if I wanted to buy replacement parts from them and they could not quote price and availability without my machine being registered. I kindly told them to %@[email protected]#*! themselves.


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