What's new
What's new

CNC to manual mill

alextnnr2

Plastic
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Hi all,

I currently have a CNC mill (tormach PCN 1100)for making small modifications to prototypes. As the designers have no cnc experience they want to replace it with a manual mill.

Is there a way of adding cranks with encoders to feed data to the mill so it operates like a manual mill?

Thank you
 
Hi all,

I currently have a CNC mill (tormach PCN 1100)for making small modifications to prototypes. As the designers have no cnc experience they want to replace it with a manual mill.

Is there a way of adding cranks with encoders to feed data to the mill so it operates like a manual mill?

Thank you

Hey if one is going to spam PM forum with Fryer* info-mertials *


Let's do it properly lol... :D

Fryer Machine Systems Inc. - CNC toolroom lathes milling machines machining centers

^^^ That one ! [Hand wheels + Siemens control]… [They have another mini-mill with abec 9 spindle bearings + Siemens control and two tenths type (light) capability ? ].


The German/ "Swiss" versions of these types of machines are hellatiously expensive and believe 2outof3 (Andy Dukes)[Of Brother/ Yamazen fame.]… has made oblique references to the utterly "failed" idea of such a hybrid machine (i.e. should be smothered in the nest at all cost and has no value in existing at all... Or at least that's the impression I got) ? I'm kinda interested what his take on that is (he has been in the "Biz" for a long time and has seen a lot of seemingly good ideas come and go...…. … )?

In the Siemens case that that might teach your designers to get "Jiggy" with the cnc. I have to admit you need both cuz there are some quick jobs that are 20X faster on manual machine to sort out than have to set up on a CNC machine. Hence division between "toolroom" and "Prototype (division/wing) and balls to the wall production.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

* Assuming we are not being trolled.

** No affiliation (promise!).

++ There was a time when even a PCnC 1100 /Tormach was almost a borderline "Bannable" topic/ subject … Now I see they are pretty maJor sponsors here ?
 
PICOMAX(R) 56 TOP - manuell und CNC-Frasen

^^^ Expensive German/ "Swiss" "Thingy" from Fehlmann Actual crank handles/ hand wheels set at 90 degrees to eacother on frontside control housing and the Quill handle for Z is really cute if not almost bizarre ( I don't know if there is any haptic/force feed back on that Z-handle ?). I think that machine is like $200K +


__________________________________________________ _______________________



@ alextnnr2 maybe a trial version of solidCAM 2 1/2 D / 3d might get your designers into cnc and better machining if they use SolidWorks already ? The manuals and tutorials for SolidCam are VERY good. But Siemens control offers nice graphical / pretty conversational programming that is not horrible In the case of the Fryer machines, the fehlmann uses a Heidenhain TNC 620 control...

Similar with fusion 360. Also noticing that CAD packages are increasingly offering CAM visualization ? notional tool paths to help designers understand what they are doing.

I agree with mhajicek that CNC is a pretty essential skill for designers and Engineers. Or at least should be ? Would really help with better design.
 
if you have folk that can design but are not willing to learn the simplest of CAM, and not willing to try, look for another job quick.

I bought my mill 21+ years ago, went into by own garage based business, and insisted on a knee mill, it was what I knew. also insisted it must have handle wheels and a z pull lever, so I could do the things I felt too fussy for the cnc.

the only part that became handy was the free z quill with the pull lever, and only because I could write code that would enable me to engage a rotating tap, then push the enter button in program or in mdi to reverse the tap when I chose to by eye observation. the cnc control when applied by mdi, or coding, and gently and carefully, is a blessing, not a curse.


the handles with fold out grips were good for whacking me in the thigh and thankfully never in the balls when I might leave them out by accident. I did use them to touch off edges and such for a while. then I trusted the handwheel. much better.


you have a nice simple little cnc there. if you have no cnc handwheel buy one. learn the simplest of g-code. practice above the part, or on an aluminum cheap blank rather then the expensive actual part. learn to run it in mdi. get someone who has some cnc experience to coach you. you already have the encoders on the machine. this is very low level stuff easy to learn. its a perfect prototype piddling around machine.

what mhajicek said is spot on. feel free to engage me in PM's or even by phone if you feel I could help. my old kneemill cnc iron is still good, but the control has died of old age and neglect. dunno where you are, but if you wanna swap and use it and its handwheels, lemmeno!
 
You can use any CNC with a handwheel as a manual if you're so inclined.

I have a Bridgeport Interact that was designed from the get-go (in 1984) to do just that. It's mostly useful as the only open-frame mill in the shop.

If they don't know how to do very, very basic CNC programming, what makes you confident that they know how to machine manually? It's probably just a generational thing, but I think running a manual is about 100X harder to get the same results, once your part complexity goes above "trivial."

But if they're really so inclined, here's the "OEM" part to do the "conversion." All of $90
30616 - Jog Shuttle Controller
 
Nope, not full atall.
But!
AFAIK, this would be the very first reverse-retrofit on PM, so I'm in!

Nahh-ahhh :nono:


https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...l-harbor-freight-worth-converting-cnc-352836/

Post #7



Yes, I think you'll find that a CNC-ified HF Mini-Mill will bring you hours of joy. But the real big thing is converting CNC machines to manual use. I took a brand new Haas VF-11, stripped the motors off it, added handwheels to the axis (axii?), and have been having a wonderful time making aircraft wing spars by hand.

Yes, there's a few drawbacks, such as having to endure showers of hot chips and coolant, and the occasional "runaway" when climb milling with a 1" endmill at .5" width and 3" DOC, but the upsides include my new massive biceps, my excellent hand-eye coordination (well, just one eye now), and being able to impress the ladies by circularly interpolating a radius to within a thousandth by hand.

So forget the mini-mill, go maxi-mill instead!

^^^ requoted for convenience from cited thread.


The proposed and most epic literal retro-fit suggestion / piss take from Milland … From the troll-tastic HF-conversion project thread.

_______________________________________



safety is a factor.
 
Hi all,

I currently have a CNC mill (tormach PCN 1100)for making small modifications to prototypes. As the designers have no cnc experience they want to replace it with a manual mill.

Is there a way of adding cranks with encoders to feed data to the mill so it operates like a manual mill?

Thank you

The right end of the X axis ballscrew is exposed, I don't know if the steppers hold the machine in place, and I don't know if they will register the movement as steps and be able to use the controller as a DRO.

The hard part would be the Y and Z, might have to buy a manual mill.
 
Do they use cell phones? I'd much rather learn CNC, than use a cell phone. I did take off the CNC controls on a SuperMax Bridgeport type mill. It had old Anilam controls. Not sure on a Tormach.
 
Hi all,

I currently have a CNC mill (tormach PCN 1100)for making small modifications to prototypes. As the designers have no cnc experience they want to replace it with a manual mill.

Is there a way of adding cranks with encoders to feed data to the mill so it operates like a manual mill?

Thank you
.
.
Prototrak mill that is a Prototrak control added to a Bridgeport type turret knee mill is popular. you can turn handles by hand if you want feel as you machine. most cnc you can run in handle mode so you can crank the electronic dial to move any axis but electronic dials you do not feel resistance.
.
Prototraks are popular when those who have no cnc training want to use it as a manual mill. the operator and programming manual is normally maybe 100 pages so its simpler than a bigger cnc with a 2000 page set of manuals to read through
.
i have worked in many shops where some machinist never bother to learn how to use even a Prototrak. why when its so simple ?? not sure. some learn better working with another expert teaching them one on one and just never bothered asking anybody for help or training advice. always some who never ask anybody for help or never ask for training
 
To use a manual mill with ballscrews, you have to be able to lock the axis that you are not using. Otherwise it will move under a heavy cut. When in cnc mode, the servo motor is locked until it is commanded to move.
 
Hi all,

I currently have a CNC mill (tormach PCN 1100)for making small modifications to prototypes. As the designers have no cnc experience they want to replace it with a manual mill.

Is there a way of adding cranks with encoders to feed data to the mill so it operates like a manual mill?

Thank you

Find another job, FAST!
 
To use a manual mill with ballscrews, you have to be able to lock the axis that you are not using. Otherwise it will move under a heavy cut. When in cnc mode, the servo motor is locked until it is commanded to move.

.
for decades i always just keep the slides 1/2 tight. can use in manual or cnc mode.
.
there is a thing called position drill basically you can program it to hold a position while drilling even if theres vibration or even if you manually force a handle to move a slide like X axis a .001 when you let go it will return to position. it basically holds a position magnetically.
.
Prototraks are simple yet surprisingly many do not take even 1 hour to learn. the tutorial section in manual explains things one at a time. normally to do the full tutorials it might take maybe 1 hour. less if you are just repeating them
 
.
for decades i always just keep the slides 1/2 tight. can use in manual or cnc mode.
.
there is a thing called position drill basically you can program it to hold a position while drilling even if theres vibration or even if you manually force a handle to move a slide like X axis a .001 when you let go it will return to position. it basically holds a position magnetically.
.
Prototraks are simple yet surprisingly many do not take even 1 hour to learn. the tutorial section in manual explains things one at a time. normally to do the full tutorials it might take maybe 1 hour. less if you are just repeating them

The op has a Tormach, not a prototrack.
 
The op has a Tormach, not a prototrack.

.
the question is about replacing with a manual mill. and my reply was a Prototrak can run either way cnc mode or manual mode
.
Prototrak Bridgeport turret knee mill can also be used as a drill press. many manual machinist prefer drilling by hand. most Prototraks are only 2 axis just X and Y all Z moves are manually done. again for some thats what they want anyway.
 
.
the question is about replacing with a manual mill. and my reply was a Prototrak can run either way cnc mode or manual mode
.
Prototrak Bridgeport turret knee mill can also be used as a drill press. many manual machinist prefer drilling by hand. most Prototraks are only 2 axis just X and Y all Z moves are manually done. again for some thats what they want anyway.

Hi all,

I currently have a CNC mill (tormach PCN 1100)for making small modifications to prototypes. As the designers have no cnc experience they want to replace it with a manual mill.

Is there a way of adding cranks with encoders to feed data to the mill so it operates like a manual mill?

Thank you

I took this as he wanted to convert his Tormach to a manual mill. I would agree that this is a bad idea.
 
Hi all,

I currently have a CNC mill (tormach PCN 1100)for making small modifications to prototypes. As the designers have no cnc experience they want to replace it with a manual mill.

Is there a way of adding cranks with encoders to feed data to the mill so it operates like a manual mill?

Thank you

I took this as he wanted to convert his Tormach to a manual mill. I would agree that this is a bad idea.

.
i got a toy Sherline mill it got cranks on on ends of stepper motors on ends of screws. sure there is switch to turn off the steppers so you can turn them manually. not a problem but if position readout depends on steppers then when you turn them off you loose your digital readout which depends on the stepper motors.
.
sure if machine has separate DRO you can use the DRO for position. in general if you figure on going into manual and back to cnc and back to manual a Prototrak with a separate DRO connected to control will read position either way it always reads position independently of mode used manual or cnc mode
 
We have a Prototrak Bridgeport with manual handles in the manual shop. The control is used almost exclusively as a DRO; I've never taken the time to figure out how to load a program on it and it's only 2 axis anyway. I'd happily trade you for that Tormach. Serious offer.
 








 
Back
Top