CNC Recommendations

So as I have been looking through more CNC Mills than I can count From every well known to off-brand make you could think of, and others you've never heard of. I've come to terms with what I actually would like to have now. After 2 machines slipped through my fingers, probably for the best though.

I really only needed to meet 3 specifications. My budget is $7500.

1. Must be able to enter a doorway that is only 84" in total height. If things can be easily removed to meet this, I am open to that.

2. Automatic tool changer, I've realized that the majority of things I make need at least a few tools. I would really like to be able to run the machine, and get work done elsewhere without worrying about a manual tool change somewhere in the runtime.

3. The ability to run G-Code derived from a CAM software. Featurecam, Mastercam, whatever...

It would be nice if the machine had the ability to accept a 4th axis. Just in case in the future I did a production run of something that would be more efficiently ran with a 4th axis. This is definitely not a requirement. But it would help me decide between one machine or another if everything else was similar.

soo...that was a question right?

..and i want to win the lottery, but refuse to buy a ticket.



on a serious note: how many years to you want spend getting an early 1980's machine up and running and becoming a service technician in your off hours??

You need a new #1..

#1) PARTS AND SUPPORT..

I don't care how cheap a machine is, if you can't fix it (and they all break), or you
can't afford to fix it, or you can't find somebody that knows a damn thing about it,
you might as well have just bought a boat anchor and have the rigger drive it straight to
the junkyard.

If you bump that budget up a little you can have a hobby grade machine that meets your requirements.
Table Top & Vertical CNC Milling Machines & Lathes for Sale | CNC Masters

They have an experimental ATC as an option, but it only holds four tools, and the machine is very slow and not very rigid.

OP you do realize that your budget is less than a suite of Mastercam, right? You might be able to squeeze F.Cam for less than 7k, but it wouldn't have 'Feature Recognition', which is the only reason Featurecam is any value. But hey that don;t mean shit, you can get Cam for way cheaper, those are just the ones you listed.

Point is, I see the Wagon in front of the Horse.

For 8k a 3 Axis Mill, 4th ready, with a G-code interface and Toolchanger, you are looking at an absolute POS, that is going to break down, not have replacement parts, and be so dated that no one remembers all the details. They are out there though, like shopping for a car from 1982, it isn't a question of 'If', it's a question of 'What'.

R

Bobw said:

You need a new #1..

#1) PARTS AND SUPPORT..

I don't care how cheap a machine is, if you can't fix it (and they all break), or you
can't afford to fix it, or you can't find somebody that knows a damn thing about it,
you might as well have just bought a boat anchor and have the rigger drive it straight to
the junkyard.

Click to expand...

And keep in mind that the parts and support will be priced for the $150000 machine it WAS, not the $7500 machine that it IS.

A Fadal with the z-axis at the lowest part of the travel and z-axis motor removed might go under 84", and is very easily serviced by yourself

What I do is go shopping with my $7500 budget, see what I can get, then double it, see what I can get, maybe double it again so I can see what I'm missing and then add a little more

triumph406 said:

A Fadal with the z-axis at the lowest part of the travel and z-axis motor removed might go under 84", and is very easily serviced by yourself

Click to expand...

SCORE!!!!! Somebody said it before me..

You can get into a mid 90's Fadal for that money easily.. A VMC15 with the Z motor removed (4 bolts) and the
cable track taken off *should* fit at about 80".. The Box machines 4020,3016,2216 aren't too far off as long
as it doesn't have the extended Z. TONS of them came with a 4th, it'll cost almost as much as the machine
does to add a 4th, but there is a reasonable quantity of machines out there that come with them (maybe 20%), and
it doesn't add all that much to the cost..

About a year and a half ago I picked up a VMC15 from a member here, and I know I overpaid compared to what I could
get one on E-bay for, BUT... It was a member HERE, and the machine had been basically rebuilt. Ballscrews, spindle,
spindle motor, spindle drive etc... AND it already had the driver board and all the other BS for a 4th, he kept the
4th, but I already have one... It was $10k.. And it had just shy of that in new parts in it in the past few years..
I got an essentially almost brand new machine for almost nothing...

Anyways.. SUPPORT!!!!! Fadals where essentially the same machine from the mid 80's up into the early 2000's,
and they made a metric buttload of them.. Fadal (as it used to exist) is long gone, but there are at least 4 or 5
companies that still sell parts for them, and provide SUPPORT!!!!! Parts are essentially FREE when compared to
most machine tools, both mechanical and electrical...

The machine itself is drop dead simple.. The control is.. At least to me.. Light years ahead of some of the
stuff that is out there now a days.. There are no SOFTWARE options, its ALL there, all you have to do is
buy the hardware and turn it on.. No need to worry about parameters, its not 200 pages of binary and hexidecimal
BS, its 3 short pages, written in English.. You can most likely re-enter them from memory(YOUR memory, not the
controls), and if you are feeling a little stupid that day, they are all written down right inside the control
pendant...

The control is drop dead stupid simple to use and has some FANTASTIC utilities in there that will make your
life really easy.. Menu driven, you tell it what you want to do, and it baby steps you through how to do it.

STANDARD FADAL DISCLAIMERS APPLY,
its not a Mori, its not a Mazak, the tool
changes are slow, the rapids aren't awe inspiring,
the accelerations are pretty pathetic, you aren't
going to profile a mold at 1200ipm.
If you MAINTAIN them, they will use every bit
of horsepower they have, if you MAINTAIN them they
are pretty darn accurate, you aren't going to interpolate
a bore within .0005" at 120ipm, but if the machine is
MAINTAINED, you can do it at 20ipm.

They are nothing fancy, they are the Fisher Price
of machine tools. They are a lot of bang for the buck.
And they are CHEAP and EASY to maintain.

litlerob1 said:

......For 8k a 3 Axis Mill, 4th ready, with a G-code interface and Toolchanger, you are looking at an absolute POS, that is going to break down, not have replacement parts, and be so dated that no one remembers all the details.

Click to expand...

Not always. You just have to look hard for a while. Here is a great example....

CNC Milling machine - Fanuc control - tools - by owner - sale

It's not prepped for a 4th though. I installed it when it was new. The first and only owner sold this machine a few years ago to a startup company and I helped them get going with it. It's too big for the OP, but IMO a great example of a solid well built machine that a new user could get years more out of with little trouble.

Vancbiker said:

Not always. You just have to look hard for a while. Here is a great example....

CNC Milling machine - Fanuc control - tools - by owner - sale

It's not prepped for a 4th though. I installed it when it was new. The first and only owner sold this machine a few years ago to a startup company and I helped them get going with it. It's too big for the OP, but IMO a great example of a solid well built machine that a new user could get years more out of with little trouble.

Click to expand...

I'm impressed, and if you sign off on it, I would get it, unfortunately I'm no longer in PDX area. Surprised it has 6000 revs. Gotta point out though---11m isn't exactly famous.

R

The 11M is like the gold standard for reliable CNCs. It's not gonna win any races against new stuff though.

So you have a 7' door opening to clear, but what do you have for ceiling height once you reassemble the machine?

I have a Haas SMM inside a garage - had to clear 7' door to get in (no prob, just had the Z down on the table and then disassembled the wiring bundle off the top of the Z and laid it all on its side). But... once inside I only had just under 8' to the bottom of the joists. I had to position the machine quite accurately because the Z goes up between floor joists when I home the machine (my house is above my garage). All doable for sure, but very careful placement was required so nothing hits. If the same machine had a few more inches of Z, I'd need a hollow coffee table somewhere in my house for the Z to home into.

Long winded... but point being: if you've only got 8' once you get through the 7' door, then you may have other issues.

PM

sen2two said:

So as I have been looking through more CNC Mills than I can count From every well known to off-brand make you could think of, and others you've never heard of. I've come to terms with what I actually would like to have now. After 2 machines slipped through my fingers, probably for the best though.

I really only needed to meet 3 specifications. My budget is $7500.

1. Must be able to enter a doorway that is only 84" in total height. If things can be easily removed to meet this, I am open to that.

2. Automatic tool changer, I've realized that the majority of things I make need at least a few tools. I would really like to be able to run the machine, and get work done elsewhere without worrying about a manual tool change somewhere in the runtime.

3. The ability to run G-Code derived from a CAM software. Featurecam, Mastercam, whatever...

It would be nice if the machine had the ability to accept a 4th axis. Just in case in the future I did a production run of something that would be more efficiently ran with a 4th axis. This is definitely not a requirement. But it would help me decide between one machine or another if everything else was similar.

Click to expand...