Combination drill & ream tool
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  1. #1
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    Default Combination drill & ream tool

    I'm in the process of helping a company evaluate/develop a custom drill/ream set-up. Long story short, it's not an operation they can easily perform on their existing equipment as the part is large, heavy (70 lb.), cumbersome and very low volume. They are currently doing it on a knee mill and it's rather unsafe and unproductive. The cost of a dedicated standard CNC machine would likely be cost-prohibitive and take up a lot of room. So far, this can be done without any complicated motions (the actual machining portion), it's a drill and tapered ream on each end of the part. The possibility of a combination drill/reamer has been brought up and just wanted to hear some thoughts on this (hopefully from experience). From my viewpoint, if successful, this would greatly reduce the complexity of the machine (i.e. if it had to change tools or use two spindles). Or, it would require a drill op for all the parts and then a ream op which would double the part handling time (not good!).

    I don't know the exact dimensions but it is basically a hole for a tapered ball joint stud, similar in size to what you typically see on a 3/4 ton pickup. I did find one at dreamertool.com; looks like they've been making them for quite some time and they apparently just moved from NY down to good old OR! I will definitely make a call to these guys but I still want to hear opinions, hopefully backed up by experience.

    Thanks,
    The Dude

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I'm in the process of helping a company evaluate/develop a custom drill/ream set-up. Long story short, it's not an operation they can easily perform on their existing equipment as the part is large, heavy (70 lb.), cumbersome and very low volume. They are currently doing it on a knee mill and it's rather unsafe and unproductive. The cost of a dedicated standard CNC machine would likely be cost-prohibitive and take up a lot of room. So far, this can be done without any complicated motions (the actual machining portion), it's a drill and tapered ream on each end of the part. The possibility of a combination drill/reamer has been brought up and just wanted to hear some thoughts on this (hopefully from experience). From my viewpoint, if successful, this would greatly reduce the complexity of the machine (i.e. if it had to change tools or use two spindles). Or, it would require a drill op for all the parts and then a ream op which would double the part handling time (not good!).

    I don't know the exact dimensions but it is basically a hole for a tapered ball joint stud, similar in size to what you typically see on a 3/4 ton pickup. I did find one at dreamertool.com; looks like they've been making them for quite some time and they apparently just moved from NY down to good old OR! I will definitely make a call to these guys but I still want to hear opinions, hopefully backed up by experience.

    Thanks,
    The Dude

    I have worked a little with custom tool design. I basically just made some concept models and talked with a bunch of different tooling shops and found one that was willing to work with me and we came up with a really cool tool. I don't think you are going to find anything off the shelf but if you make a drawing of the profile you need and find a decent tool maker willing to work with you I am sure it can be done. Nice thing about your application is that you can invest a decent amount of money into a few tools and continually send them out for sharpening and you don't have to re-buy the tools, just maintain them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I don't know the exact dimensions
    if possible, pls share :
    ... conditions for this operation ( drawing, tolerance, briefs, etc )
    ... quantity for parts and actual tools requirements
    ... actual tools / photo with actual setup
    ... desired setup
    ... reasons for the change

    drill + reamer is not a common combination, may raise some problems, but it may work

    however, each tool has its own life spam and deviations from it, and a sudden failure on one will compromise the other

    kindly !
    Last edited by deadlykitten; 08-16-2017 at 02:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deadlykitten View Post
    if possible, pls share :
    ... conditions for this operation ( drawing, tolerance, briefs, etc )
    ... quantity for parts and actual tools requirements
    ... actual tools / photo with actual setup
    ... desired setup
    ... reasons for the change

    drill + reamer is not a common combination, may raise some problems, but it may work

    however, each tool has its own life spam and deviations from it, and a sudden failure on one will compromise the other

    kindly !
    Hi,

    I will try to get that info soon but it may not be until next week. I can say for now that it's a "customer" part (i.e. they are not the OEM for this) so I don't know the reason for the change. If you mean why do we want to consider a drill & ream it would be to simplify the operation. Also, for the foreseeable future it will be around 2,000 holes/year.

    Thanks,
    The Dude

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    ok, just check on it and share what you think ...

    a technical drawing + actual setup / fixture + some ideas > is more than enough

    the idea of a double tool is not bad

    the target is a double tool that will deliver a time <= actual time

    if tool cost is ok, than everybody is satisfied

    please, try to get infos about actual tool life spam, for example, crafting 2000 holes requires 10 drills and 40 reamers ?

    also, try to get info about price for such tools ...

    i have ordered and crafted special tools, including combi-reamers ... well, keep in touch

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    Having reamed tapered holes on a Bridgeport, I can say that using a finish reamer will be hard on the machine. You will probably want a rough and finish reamer.

    But if they're doing it the hard way already, then it's possible. There are lots of reamer geometries, a reverse twist (negative cutting angle) reamer looks to be the most stable and least prone to chatter. I know that the big flute reamers I got are difficult to use and tend to grab and chatter rather easily.

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    dead-cat.jpg

    Sorry for the confusion.

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    Just curious how you intend to marry a tool intended to produce lots of chips (drill) with a tool intended to produce small amount of chips (reamer) on the same axis. Drills have large flutes to move the chips out. Reamers don't. The only way I see this working is the flutes of the drill must be longer than the depth of the hole, there must be a clearance between the top of the drill and the start of the reamer to allow full evacuation of the chips, the chips would have to be flushed from the hole with pressure fed coolant.

    Tom

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    Material?????

    Hope you are not trying this in Ti. Place I used to work did some ball joint taper holes in Ti parts and reamers did not work. Ended up ball milling the tapers. Worked great, just sloooow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    The only way I see this working is the flutes of the drill must be longer than the depth of the hole, there must be a clearance between the top of the drill and the start of the reamer to allow full evacuation of the chips, the chips would have to be flushed from the hole with pressure fed coolant
    drill in
    drill out
    tool is cleaned
    drill fast in
    reamer in
    tool out

  11. #11
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    Doing as DK has suggested would take time, probably only a little less than a tool change. Unless we are looking at absolute minimum amount of machine time, I am not sot sure that added cost of the tool will offset the time savings.

    I have seen combination reamers but never a combination reamer-drill.

    Tom

    Edit:- On review of the original goals, separate tools doesn't work. On the other hand, unless the hole is short, does the BP or whatever have enough stroke for a combination tool?

    T:-


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