Compact CNC lathes: Takisawa, Okuma, Mazak?

trochoidalpath · Aug 18, 2018

I'm looking into adding a CNC lathe into my small shop. I do mostly prototyping and occasional very small lot (<20 pieces) production, about equally in aluminum and 300 series stainless. Right now I have to sub out all my lathe work, which is expensive and annoying. 6x10" capacity would cover 98% of my parts.

The big catch is that space is at an absolute premium here, so I'm trying to find the best compromise for minimum floor space.

So far, I've found the Okuma Genos L250, Takisawa's TCC-2100, and maybe the Mazak Primos. Any thoughts on these machines? Any other options I should be considering? Thanks!

Triaged · Aug 18, 2018

What % could you do with 200mm of length? There seems to be a new small footprint class around this size.

TAKAMAZ USL-48� - yuasa-intl

BROTHERFRANK · Aug 18, 2018

Are you in SoCal? We have installed a good number of 2100 size machines. The 1100 is nice but the work envelope may be small for your apps.

trochoidalpath · Aug 18, 2018

I'm up north, actually.

From the dimension drawings it looks like the Takisawa TCC lathes have chip pans that pull out the back. How's that work with them so close to the wall in your second photo? Can they be put up against a wall, or is there a side access requirement?

trochoidalpath · Aug 18, 2018

Oh, what a cool form factor!

200mm is a little cramped, but I'm actually more worried about the 3" chuck. 6" would be much better.

BROTHERFRANK · Aug 18, 2018

BROTHERFRANK said:
Are you in SoCal? We have installed a good number of 2100 size machines. The 1100 is nice but the work envelope may be small for your apps.

View attachment 236068

View attachment 236069

the machines can have side or rear chip evacuation, your choice. field configurable. Conveyor, side or rear discharge, is optional.

DouglasJRizzo · Aug 18, 2018

I'm a bit biased but a Doosan Lynx 2100 or Puma GT 2100 might work nicely.

eaglemike · Aug 19, 2018

DouglasJRizzo said:
I'm a bit biased but a Doosan Lynx 2100 or Puma GT 2100 might work nicely.

Just for fun, could you tell me about those machines, spec's, and their differences?
Are they supported like the Takisawa stuff? Are they as reliable as Takisawa?
If I ever have a question about spec's pricing, etc on any other lathe than Takisawa (or Haas since in it's actuallu really on their site) it seems like a bit of a run-around to get complete information...................

trochoidalpath · Aug 19, 2018

eaglemike said:
Just for fun, could you tell me about those machines, spec's, and their differences?
Are they supported like the Takisawa stuff? Are they as reliable as Takisawa?
If I ever have a question about spec's pricing, etc on any other lathe than Takisawa (or Haas since in it's actuallu really on their site) it seems like a bit of a run-around to get complete information...................

I made a comparison of the Takisawa, Okuma, and Doosan options -- let me know if you find that useful!

eaglemike · Aug 19, 2018

trochoidalpath said:
I made a comparison of the Takisawa, Okuma, and Doosan options -- let me know if you find that useful!

It's great - just need pricing, and then support factor....
To me, the support factor is crucial........Yamazen is gold. Are the others close?
Someone a while back was saying they were having trouble getting parts for a Doosan mill or lathe, IIRC?

Comatose · Aug 19, 2018

I have one of each, a Genos L200emy and a TS4000YS.

Takisawa's manuals are a single sad engrish binder.

Okuma comes with basically a whole bookshelf.

Takisawa has a plain vanilla Fanuc control with no operator help or overlay.

The Okuma control is great, except that is is in some places intentionally crippled and then they sell you basic fublnctionaliry back as options. Options are expensive.

If you ask Yamazen about literally anything on the Takisawa, the answer will be "I don't know" and that is where it will stop. At least in Ohio. Which is less than helpful because the book is worthless. Takisawa's office in this country are somewhat helpful though.

Which is a shame, because the guts of the Takisawa are pretty good, really. I described it as an underengineered and underdocumented assemblage of pretty nice parts.

I use the Okuma daily. If you have a lot more space and a lot more budget I'd happily sell you a barely used three year old Y axis Takisawa with sub-spindle. It is far and away my least favorite machine in the shop. (In fairness, it is also the only Fanuc control in the shop)

Comatose · Aug 19, 2018

Also the Okuma drinks a LOT of way oil, the spindle takes forever to spin up and spin down, and VDI is a terrible tool holder interface. Otherwise no major complaints with the Okuma.

Mtndew · Aug 20, 2018

We have an Okuma L250.
The control is the best on the market IMO, but that particular machine is direct drive, and has NO balls at 5" or larger diameter stock unless you take small (.1" or less per side) cuts.
Someone above said it takes forever for the spindle to wind up and down, that's not the case with ours, unless they are used to Brother mills lol.
The way oil consumption can be controlled by a parameter if need be. Overall it holds tenths all day long.
I would recommend it.

eaglemike · Aug 20, 2018

Mtndew said:
We have an Okuma L250.
The control is the best on the market IMO, but that particular machine is direct drive, and has NO balls at 5" or larger diameter stock unless you take small (.1" or less per side) cuts.
Someone above said it takes forever for the spindle to wind up and down, that's not the case with ours, unless they are used to Brother mills lol.
The way oil consumption can be controlled by a parameter if need be. Overall it holds tenths all day long.
I would recommend it.

Thx
Did you ever need any support for your Okuma?

cameraman · Aug 20, 2018

trochoidalpath said:
I'm looking into adding a CNC lathe into my small shop. I do mostly prototyping and occasional very small lot (<20 pieces) production, about equally in aluminum and 300 series stainless. Right now I have to sub out all my lathe work, which is expensive and annoying. 6x10" capacity would cover 98% of my parts.

The big catch is that space is at an absolute premium here, so I'm trying to find the best compromise for minimum floor space.

So far, I've found the Okuma Genos L250, Takisawa's TCC-2100, and maybe the Mazak Primos. Any thoughts on these machines? Any other options I should be considering? Thanks!

QT Primos …

The 150 and 50 can be ordered from Mazak Singapore. (Primos 150 larger working diameter and length as the Primos 100 offered in the USA is about 7.8 ".

The one thing that caught my eye is that roundness of 0.11 micron and Ra 0.058 and Rz of 0.4 micron … That's Hardinge T series territory. But for about $55 to $60K. [Primos 100 has 5000 rpm spindle].

If you don't need those kinds of tolerances then it doesn't matter really?

The turret does not use a curvic coupling but the servo/roller cam thingy.

Control is Mazak FZ control based on Fanuc Oi. It is very compact.

QUICK TURN PRIMOS 15 S (Singapore)

QT-PRIMOS 1

^^^ USA

__________________________________________

Video shows a pretty decent DOC on a large diameter work piece. The Primos spindle is like the other MAZAK spindles integrated headstock motor, less vibration, + short bed = high precisions and individual part accuracies. Not sure what thermal control is like on these but on a two axis machine in a garage could be straight forward to "Map out" and compensate for if need be.

Vancbiker · Aug 20, 2018

cameraman said:
.....The turret does not use a curvic coupling but the servo/roller cam thingy.

This equates to "don't crash it".

A few models of Hitachi Seiki used a similar system. After a heavy crash they no longer would "lock" the turret at that index. Left you with a choice of a $7k parts bill plus labor or a turret station that was great for tapping or reaming.

cameraman · Aug 20, 2018

Vancbiker said:
This equates to "don't crash it".

A few models of Hitachi Seiki used a similar system. After a heavy crash they no longer would "lock" the turret at that index. Left you with a choice of a $7k parts bill plus labor or a turret station that was great for tapping or reaming.

lol...

A T series Hardinge is about $180k to $200K or dinky gang tool QUEST CHNC 27 & 42 is freaking expensive too.

$7k for a willfully bad crash sounds pretty good value to me and one to budget for

Awesome !

[it is what it is]… No freeeeeee lunch. OP is doing small batches and has time to be baby the flump out of such a machine. However I do feel that the POWER of the spindle vs the mechanical solidity of the turret is a mis-match and yes the spindle + freaky soft jaws + long hunky tool could be "fun"... Is there not a friction break release system (on the turret) that just "Gives" in the event of a really hard hit ?

____________________________________

Is it "Cheap to crash" is also a good criterion for shopping for new equipment. What happens if you have never crashed anything in your entire life ? [Telford Einstizle not withstanding]. (A few bumps ?).

If "cheap to crash" was the only "Controlling" criterion we would only buy 5 axis robo drills and nothing else. Not sure what lathe / turning center is best for repeated crashing … OR BAD crashing? [Sounds like the beginning of a bad blues song... "Got up this morning … Dun nahh neh nahhh… cra-cra-craaashed my lathe , Duh nehhh nah naaa, Boss man looking to fire me … Dun nehh neh nahh cuz I crashed it twenty times before , Duh neehh neh nahh … Got up this morning … ".].

Mtndew · Aug 20, 2018

eaglemike said:
Thx
Did you ever need any support for your Okuma?

We've had it for 5 years now, we have 3 other Okuma lathes and 4 other Okuma mills.
Support is great if/when we need it. But for that particular machine, I don't recall needing support to fix anything on it.

Vancbiker · Aug 20, 2018

cameraman said:
....$7k for a willfully bad crash sounds pretty good value to me and one to budget for

Machines with curvic coupling style turrets would only need the turret re-aligned. No parts required and typically able to be performed by the machine user. A few hours down time as opposed to waiting a day or more for parts and then most likely a full day to R&R the index assembly.

I'll take a curvic design any day....

machfab · Aug 20, 2018

We have run a Takisawa TCC1000 for the last three years 40 hours per week and have had good results.
Machine is very accurate and fast as well. Similar scenario, small shop, limited space small parts(3"diameter and under)

Compact CNC lathes: Takisawa, Okuma, Mazak?

Cast Iron

Aluminum

Stainless

Cast Iron

Cast Iron

Stainless

Titanium

Stainless

Cast Iron

Stainless

Titanium

Titanium

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Aluminum

Similar threads