Conquest T42 Turret Help
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  1. #1
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    Question Conquest T42 Turret Help

    Hey guys,

    This afternoon our Hardinge Conquest T42 developed a problem with the turret.

    Had run a couple hundred parts(bar work), over a thousand tool changes today. Put a new bar in, checked to make sure rough face tool cleaned the end of bar, and walked away(to program another part).

    After a few minutes, noticed I didn't hear the machine running. Checked and had...
    1003 Turet Unclamped alarm
    416 Servo Alarm: A Axis disconnect

    tl;dr Then proceeded to beat my head against the wall for ~10 hrs.

    The machine hadn't crashed, no broke tooling. Machine was ~3/4 of the way thru the part program, when alarm occurred. Went to safe position to call next tool, and alarmed.

    Reset, and zero returned turret. Jogged a few tool changes, and had the same thing occur.

    Sometimes I can do half a dozen tool changes, sometimes one(before alarms reoccur). Once in a while the turret will raise, index, and clamp, then alarm. But most of the time the turret will raise, index, then alarm. Just as it should be clamping, solenoid doesn't fire(release) though.

    It indexes(near as I can tell) correctly, i.e. it's on index.

    Turned the machine off, and unplugged/re-plugged all the "Honda" cables. Encoder to CNC, and CNC to Drive. No change.

    We've got (2) more machine in storage, so I swapped the drive. No change.

    I pulled an encoder cable, and swapped. No change.

    This machine has a "Dual Axis" servo drive, for X, and A(the turret). Does it seem odd the I'm seeing an 416 alarm for the A Axis, rather than a 4(A)6 alarm?

    Diagnostic(Servo Alarm) 200 is all zero's, except for FBA on the "A" Axis
    Diagnostic(Servo Alarm) 201 is all zero's
    Servo Motor Tuning screen alarms for "A" is...
    Alarm1 00000010
    Alarm2 01001001



    In the morning I'm gonna plug a similar motor in(power, and encoder), and see if that works. Any other Ideas?

  2. #2
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    I'm not techie enough for the codes to be a help to me, but my guess is a bad encoder on the turret motor.


    ----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    I've had the 1003 alarm on my lathe, it was a bad prox sensor.

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    Yeah I've changed had to change the turret prox before. The 1003 this time is a symptom of the 416. I think the 416 alarm is my real problem.

    Turns out the spare motor we had on the shelf wasn't exactly the same. I think the encoder is probably different. When I tied to "zero return the turret",(read: motor sitting on the bench) it would osculate, and have 410, and 411 excess error alarms. So didn't learn anything there.

    I'm gonna pull the index motor off an "identical" machine, and run that. Not gonna be fun as the x-axis is at home(all the way up), and don't have room to get covers off to access.

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    I'm like Ox, not techie but I do have some things for you to try. Since diagnostic 201 is all zeros it is likely not a hardware connection, but a software issue. If ALDF and EXPC were 1's it would be a hardware issue. I have copied and pasted the procedure for resetting the home position for the turret with absolute pulse coder and setting G-Data D308. D308 should match your current turret position, so if it does not, try the procedure below. I will pm you my phone number if you have questions. It could be a backlash issue also, and I will add a link to that procedure below. Also, remove the square cover with 8 bolts on top of the turret and verify that the turret clamp/unclamp prox switches are working. Where are you located in Michigan?

    Conquest Backlash Adjust

    Turret Home Setup for Machines with Absolute Encoders
    1. Make certain that the machine is powered up. Press Control ON, if necessary.
    2. Pull out on E-Stop pushbutton (74) and simultaneously press E-Stop Reset pushbutton
    (73) to make sure that the hydraulic system is turned on.
    3. Turn the turret station switch (47) to the number of the station desired - usually Station 1.
    4. Press and hold Zero Return pushbutton (69) and, then, press the Turret Index 1 pushbutton
    (44); the turret will raise (unclamp), index to the station selected and clamp. Release
    the buttons.
    5. Turn the turret station switch (47) to the highest number - either 10 or 12.
    6. Press and hold Zero Return pushbutton (69) and, then, press the Turret Index 1 pushbutton
    (44); the turret will raise (unclamp), index to the station selected and clamp with
    that station close to the spindle centerline.
    7. Repeat steps #3 through 6 until turret sets (clamps) down fully.
    8. Set parameter write enable (pwe) to a 1 as follows:
    A. Press E-Stop button.
    B. Turn program protect key to OFF position.
    C. Press OFFSET/SETTING hard key.
    D. Press SETTING soft key.
    E. Move the cursor to PWE.
    E. Key in 1 and press INPUT.
    G. An alarm will display that the pwe is turned on.
    10. Set parameter 1815 A APZ equal to 0 as follows:
    A. Press SYSTEM hard key.
    B. Press PARAM soft key.
    C. Key in 1 8 1 5
    D. Press NO.SRH soft key.
    E. Move the cursor to the A-AXIS row and APZ column.
    F. Press the 0 key and press INPUT.
    G. Press Control OFF; wait 1 minute; then, press Control ON and reset E-Stop.
    11. Set G.DATA D308 to 10 or 12, depending if it is a ten station or twelve station turret, as
    follows:
    A. Press SYSTEM hard key.
    B. Press PMC soft key.
    C. Press PMCPRM soft key.
    D. Press DATA soft key.
    E. Press G.DATA soft key.
    F. Key in 3 0 8
    G. Press SEARCH soft key.
    H. Key in the highest turret station number, either 10 or 12; press INPUT.
    12. Set parameter 1815 A APZ equal to 1 as follows:
    A. Press SYSTEM hard key.
    B. Press PARAM soft key.
    C. Key in 1 8 1 5
    D. Press NO.SRH soft key.
    E. Move the cursor to the A-AXIS row and APZ column.
    F. Press the 1 key and press INPUT.
    13. Set parameter write enable (pwe) to 0 as follows:
    A. Press E-Stop button.
    B. Press OFFSET/SETTING hard key.
    C. Press SETTING soft key.
    D. Move the cursor to PWE.
    E. Key in 0 and press INPUT.
    F. Clear the E-Stop button; then, press RESET button to clear pwe alarm.
    G. Press Control OFF; wait 1 minute; then, press Control ON and reset E-top.
    - NOTE -
    If alarm “1003 TURRET UNCLAMPED” appears, press ZERO RETURN and TURRET
    1 INDEX buttons to index the turret and clear the alarm.
    14. Test the unclamp and clamp at each turret station (index to all stations).

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    Backlash is a real issue with these for sure (worm box) but unless he just loaded up an hugely unbalanced turret for the first time in recent history, I doubt that it's lash.
    Lash should slowly show it's face under normal conditions, with an odd fault now and aggin, with increasing frequency.
    To go from not having issues to can't run - I doubt it's lash. (again - unless you loaded up a hugely unbalanced turret of toys)



    Since his turret indexed, but din't pull in, I'd rule out prox as it is the "finish" signal from the CNC that tells the valve to shift to pull the top plate down.
    It wouldn't look for the prox until after this.

    Sounds like either the encoder lost count, or the valve is bad.
    And a bad valve should simply leave the machine hanging, unless it possibly times out?
    And that would likely toss a "turret clamp" alarm, or similar?
    If RESET let's the top plate drop, then that rules out the valve too.




    -------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    It's pretty easy on that machine to check if the turret is clamping and unclamping. I like to remove the square cover to verify the switches. Push the e-stop button, then hit the reset e-stop button and turret index button at the same time. The turret should raise and lower every time you hit the index button. I have seen some machines that you have to turn on special bits to get that to work, but I believe it will work on the T42.

    The turret isn't gonna index if those swithes are not working.

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    What I find to be the wildcard is that he says that it's not seemingly "off index" at any point.

    If it was an encoder going bad, is it only crapping out just after it finishes the index?


    -------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    G-data D308 is where the software knows where the turret is supposed to be. Pretty easy thing to check and change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Other Brother View Post
    I'm like Ox, not techie but ...

    Well, you're a lot more "techie" than I am, b/c I don't even know what G data is.


    ---------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I'm not techie enough for the codes to be a help to me, but my guess is a bad encoder on the turret motor.


    ----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Winner, Winner, Chicken dinner!

    Got it running earlier today, was the motor(encoder), but bet nobodies ever seen this one before.

    Tried motor from doner machine, plugged in on the bench, and it worked just like I hoped. When commanded to index, turret would raise(unclamp), motor would spin, and turret would clamp.

    So next order of business was to change problem motor.

    Unbolted, and it took significant force/wiggling to pickup the motor. When I finally got it out gear oil came pouring out.

    This machine has a timing/cogged belt drive between the servo motor, and worm input.(that's not supposed to be submerged in oil)

    Pulled the "Red Cap" off, and gear oil came pouring out.(that's not right)

    I removed the cover to access the turret clamp, and home/reference prox's. This chamber was filled to the brim with coolant.

    I think what happened was a few months(year?) ago the turret home/reference prox died. When I replaced that I zip-tied the wires up, but didn't cut the "tails" of the zip-ties. When I put the cover back on one of the tails got caught in-between the cover, and gasket. This caused a leak path. Every time the I did a tool change from then on, the turret unclamping would suck in coolant thru this cover. Once it had completely filled the prox switch chamber, when the turret clamped it forced coolant past the seal(o-ring/lipseal?) into the worm/worm gear chamber. Once that filled, it forced into the belt drive area. When that had nowhere else to go, it went past the shaft seal on the servo motor. Not a lot of air space in a servo motor, so once that filled only place left to go was the encoder.

    Apparently ~25 year old Fanuc encoders can't be submerged in dirty gear oil/coolant for very long before they start causing problems Hopefully they've since corrected this oversight

    I sucked all(most) the coolant oil mixture out of the prox, and belt chamber. Drained the worm gear chamber, and refilled with fresh/clean gear oil. Put new(good used) motor on, did the Home procedure detailed by Other Brother earlier(thank you very much). tested, and re-installed covers.

    Did a mid-program start to save the part that was still held in the sub-spindle(yay saved ~$.25 of material). Machine ran like nothing ever happened the rest of the day.

    I'll be ordering a new belt, and replace at some point. Don't know how long it ran like that, but it(belt) can't be long for this world. The worm box oil will get changed again at that time.

    Thanks for the help.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails oil-cooled-servo-motor.jpg  
    Last edited by Donny Baker; 04-20-2019 at 09:03 PM. Reason: forgot attachement

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    What I find to be the wildcard is that he says that it's not seemingly "off index" at any point.

    If it was an encoder going bad, is it only crapping out just after it finishes the index?


    -------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    That's what it was doing, but I don't understand why/how. With the Home/reference prox. adjusted to not make. When I "Zero Returned" the turret it would just spin seemingly forever, no alarm. When jogging the turret it would(most of the time), unclamp, index to seemingly correct position. Then alarm 416, also 1003 turret unclamped(after time). When it didn't, it clamped up correctly then threw the 416 A-Axis disconnect.

    If I E-Stoped at that point it would then clamp(single solenoid valve). So turret was lined up, at least really close.

    Moral of the story is, kids don't run your precision electronic devices submerged in dirty gear oil. May experience errors.

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    Glad you saved the $.25 material!

    Not only that, but it sounds like you won't need to fill the coolant tank tonight either!
    (only cost a servo motor... )

    I keep at least one spare of every belt - at least once I've replaced it once.

    Hoping for the upgrade version of the encoder next gen motors!






    With the Home/reference prox. adjusted to not make. When I "Zero Returned" the turret it would just spin seemingly forever, no alarm


    Yeah, they spin 'till they see the prox...
    They shouldn't need a timer as you are obviously standing right there when you sent it to HOME.


    ---------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    What's odd is that this was spinning with the oil cooled motor. So it was servoing to a moving target just fine, as soon as it had a fixed index amount to goto it would alarm(after going there).

    Oh well, odd stuff happens when you put sensitive electronics in abusive environments.

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    The end of a wire zip tie! I wonder how many machines have been disabled due to those. I have one for you, a lose one in the fan on top of a drive, intermittent alarms, lol.

    I'm glad at least one of us low techies could help. You must be pretty useful mechanically to get those covers off with the machine being down. If you ever decide to replace the piston seals you can borrow my spanner wrench I made for getting the lock nuts off of the shaft. They are in a pocket and no room for a hook spanner. Glad you got it going and thanks for explaining what you did to fix it.

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    "Oil" in the motor, and possibly even in the encoder - prolly aint that big of a deal.
    Oil doesn't conduct, and sump pumps are filled with it.

    BUT the water that was with it - THAT makes it a wonder that it lasted as long as it did!
    I have a Gusher pump that the motor got swamped down in a 55 gal barrel..... It didn't like it...


    Now, about that chicken dinner .... I'm not overly into poultry all that much, and I just had turkey the last cpl of days, so maybe you just let Darrel have it....
    I'm not sure if he's any closer to you or not tho?


    ------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Zip tie in the fan, I'll have to remember to watch for that one.

    I pulled the z-axis waycover, and the x-axis brake cover(big alum. cap). I could then grab the z screw and turn it, and get a 10mm socket on the x-axis screw.

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    I don't know whats inside one of these Fanuc encoders. But if it's a etched glass disc, and reads(counts) optically a oil film could make the lines blurry.

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