Create an Operator Timer // Haas

runninwideopen · Oct 27, 2020

Hello,

I apologize if this is already out there somewhere - I must be typing in wrong keywords.

I'm wanting to create an operator timer, basically a stop watch turning a 'lap' everytime they push start, on my Haas VF1 (NGC). Nothing that is saved or reported anywhere - just something for the operator to see to tell them how they're doing. This doesn't appear to be available via the built in timers, but I'm wondering if there's a way to do it with macros, since I can tell the machine to display a given macro.

Any production shops out there have this figured out?

kustomizer · Oct 27, 2020

At the end of the day the hours he wants paid for and the cycles they completed is how they are doing.

runninwideopen · Oct 27, 2020

That doesn’t answer my question at all.

Next.

EmGo · Oct 27, 2020

runninwideopen said:
That doesn’t answer my question at all.

Next.

It does if you can handle some really difficult arithmetic, like, dividing 60 by the cycle time, omigawd, is there a button for that ?

runninwideopen · Oct 27, 2020

EmanuelGoldstein said:
It does if you can handle some really difficult arithmetic, like, dividing 60 by the cycle time, omigawd, is there a button for that ?

Your sarcasm seems ill-advised. Your calculation does not give me what I’m looking for nor tell me how to get it into a macro.

mmurray70 · Oct 27, 2020

runninwideopen said:
Hello,

I apologize if this is already out there somewhere - I must be typing in wrong keywords.

I'm wanting to create an operator timer, basically a stop watch turning a 'lap' everytime they push start, on my Haas VF1 (NGC). Nothing that is saved or reported anywhere - just something for the operator to see to tell them how they're doing. This doesn't appear to be available via the built in timers, but I'm wondering if there's a way to do it with macros, since I can tell the machine to display a given macro.

Any production shops out there have this figured out?

Not sure how to do it on a Haas but this is an awesome Idea. I have a retrofit Fadal and have it setup this way. Every time it stops it displays run time, and cycle time which is time since the previous stop (including part changing).

Really like this feature, you know right away if your doing good or bad on a job. You can walk up to a machine and easily see how long operator is taking to change parts by comparing the two numbers. Every machine should display this.

Booze Daily · Oct 28, 2020

Check #3020-#3025.
System Variables | Customer Resource Center

Mike1974 · Oct 28, 2020

mmurray70 said:
Not sure how to do it on a Haas but this is an awesome Idea. I have a retrofit Fadal and have it setup this way. Every time it stops it displays run time, and cycle time which is time since the previous stop (including part changing).

Really like this feature, you know right away if your doing good or bad on a job. You can walk up to a machine and easily see how long operator is taking to change parts by comparing the two numbers. Every machine should display this.

Charmilles wedm I ran years ago had this. Unfortunately for me, it was used as a beating stick!

Boss: That machine has been sitting for 3 minutes!?
Me: Well I have been setting up this other machine (in another room/section)
Boss; Can't you check the clock, or set an alarm
Me: Sure.... :rolleyes5:

wrustle · Oct 28, 2020

runninwideopen said:
Hello,

I apologize if this is already out there somewhere - I must be typing in wrong keywords.

I'm wanting to create an operator timer, basically a stop watch turning a 'lap' everytime they push start, on my Haas VF1 (NGC). Nothing that is saved or reported anywhere - just something for the operator to see to tell them how they're doing. This doesn't appear to be available via the built in timers, but I'm wondering if there's a way to do it with macros, since I can tell the machine to display a given macro.

Any production shops out there have this figured out?

All we do here is production work, 95% repeat production work.

All our jobs have a route sheet that follows the job through our shop. From receiving raw materials to final inspection, and even shipping information and procedures are documented.

When the job hits the machining centers, there is already the quoted cycle times per handling and parts per hour noted noted in the programs taken from the route sheet. Once the parts are set up and running smoothly, a cycle time is taken via stopwatch from cycle start button push to start the cycle to start button push when those parts are removed and the next set of parts is loaded and button pushed.

Everyone has the understanding to make this a normal change over for parts in and out. In other words......don't bust balls to go as fast as possible for the documented cycle time as it will be expected every time. Normal pace for the cycle, note it in the program, sign off on the program (initials and last run date) when it goes back. When I have programs and route sheet back in my office I update system files to check on accuracy and for profit or loss.

In every program for every job we run, there is a proven cycle time noted at the beginning of the program showing minutes per piece, and pieces per hour.

Once a proven job gets scheduled in a machine, I know exactly how many hours it will take, provided there are no hiccups during set ups.

It makes scheduling a breeze for calculating lead times, vendor scheduling for outside services, and the need for overtime.

This is how we do things in our shop. I do not know of any way to get the calculations you're looking for by simply viewing the control.

Later,
Russ

ChipSplitter · Oct 28, 2020

The only thing I can think of would be to use a macro timer. Not even sure if that's possible because of the ladder structure in the control (i.e., whether the available timers count idle time or not).

But kustomizer is right, if he worked 4 hours on a job and completed 200 parts/cycles, he's doing 50/hour. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

thesidetalker · Oct 28, 2020

runninwideopen said:
Hello,

I apologize if this is already out there somewhere - I must be typing in wrong keywords.

I'm wanting to create an operator timer, basically a stop watch turning a 'lap' everytime they push start, on my Haas VF1 (NGC). Nothing that is saved or reported anywhere - just something for the operator to see to tell them how they're doing. This doesn't appear to be available via the built in timers, but I'm wondering if there's a way to do it with macros, since I can tell the machine to display a given macro.

Any production shops out there have this figured out?

Yeah that is possible. By 'lap' timer, you're talking about cycle time plus time to unload/load, correct? Total time between cycle-starts?

Very easy to do if you just want a percentage of overall spindle uptime. (set a var to 100. * #3021 / #3020)

But time in minutes/seconds of that cycle for each part is a little more involved.

pb1 · Oct 28, 2020

I think the others don't see the value in collecting an analyzing data that the machines already produce. In the past I did long term monitoring on our CNC EDM machines in house and we knew that when the cycle times creeped up 5%, we would need to do some reactive maintenance (it was a known problem with that particular power supply).

It won't help you with what you are trying to do directly, but it looks like you can check the machines remotely for part counters and the past 2 cycle times: Machine Data Collection - NGC

I have not used HAAS controls but, it looks like #3012 gives you Hours/minutes/seconds, so you could do the whole macro with 3 variables, one for the current part start time, a second for the previous part start time, and a third for the difference. At the beginning of the part you would copy the data from the 'current' to 'previous' value, record the new 'current' value, and calculate the difference. If there is a way to display that third value on the screen you would get what you are after.

thesidetalker · Oct 28, 2020

#3012 is time in hhmmss though. I believe it would have to be converted to plain seconds first.

For example, the time now is 7:24:15am. #3012 would contain 72415

Since there's a bit of math involved. Probably best to leave it in a separate program. Then call it at the top of your regular part program.

(hrs)
#1= FIX[#3012/10000]
(min)
#2= FIX[#3012 /100 ] - [#1*100]
(sec)
#3= #3012-[#1*10000]-[#2*100]
(total seconds)
#4= [#1*60.+#2]*60.+#3

Then store in a diff variable so you can see it on your timers page. All my machines have #188 set to 'macro assign #1' (under current commands/timers) so we can view probe measurements quickly.

#188= #4 - #500
#500= #4

That would display 'lap' time in seconds. If you want "minutes.seconds" you could do

#188= FIX[ #188 / 60. ] + [ #188 / 60.- FIX[ #188 / 60. ]]* 0.6

75 seconds would display 1.15

Save it as whatever program number you want, then just call that at the start of your regular part program. M98P1000

Just make sure you're not using #500 elsewhere. or just change it to a different one.

Code:

%
O1000(lap timer)
G103 P1 
(hrs)
#1= FIX[#3012/10000]
(min)
#2= FIX[#3012 /100 ] - [#1*100]
(sec)
#3= #3012-[#1*10000]-[#2*100]
(total seconds)
#4= [#1*60.+#2]*60.+#3

#188= #4 - #500 
#500= #4

#188= FIX[ #188 / 60. ] + [ #188 / 60.- FIX[ #188 / 60. ]]* 0.6 
G103 
M99
%

gregormarwick · Oct 28, 2020

I did this once years ago on a really long running production job, purely as an operator aid so they could see directly if they were keeping up or not.

That machine had no macro capability, but it had an auxiliary IO relay that latched when the machine was in cycle and released when the cycle ended.

I hooked it up to an arduino with a little lcd display and wrote a simple program that showed them their start-start cycle time, parts per hour, in-cycle ratio etc. as well as some basic tool life stuff.

mmurray70 · Oct 28, 2020

wrustle said:
All we do here is production work, 95% repeat production work.

All our jobs have a route sheet that follows the job through our shop. From receiving raw materials to final inspection, and even shipping information and procedures are documented.

When the job hits the machining centers, there is already the quoted cycle times per handling and parts per hour noted noted in the programs taken from the route sheet. Once the parts are set up and running smoothly, a cycle time is taken via stopwatch from cycle start button push to start the cycle to start button push when those parts are removed and the next set of parts is loaded and button pushed.

Everyone has the understanding to make this a normal change over for parts in and out. In other words......don't bust balls to go as fast as possible for the documented cycle time as it will be expected every time. Normal pace for the cycle, note it in the program, sign off on the program (initials and last run date) when it goes back. When I have programs and route sheet back in my office I update system files to check on accuracy and for profit or loss.

In every program for every job we run, there is a proven cycle time noted at the beginning of the program showing minutes per piece, and pieces per hour.

Once a proven job gets scheduled in a machine, I know exactly how many hours it will take, provided there are no hiccups during set ups.

It makes scheduling a breeze for calculating lead times, vendor scheduling for outside services, and the need for overtime.

This is how we do things in our shop. I do not know of any way to get the calculations you're looking for by simply viewing the control.

Later,
Russ

Sounds like a great system. What I do is 95% prototypes and small batches of parts that you will never see again. I find it great for the machine to display times that I can quickly compare to quoted times and see how im doing.

Mike1974 · Oct 28, 2020

pb1 said:
I think the others don't see the value in collecting an analyzing data that the machines already produce. In the past I did long term monitoring on our CNC EDM machines in house and we knew that when the cycle times creeped up 5%, we would need to do some reactive maintenance (it was a known problem with that particular power supply).

It won't help you with what you are trying to do directly, but it looks like you can check the machines remotely for part counters and the past 2 cycle times: Machine Data Collection - NGC

I have not used HAAS controls but, it looks like #3012 gives you Hours/minutes/seconds, so you could do the whole macro with 3 variables, one for the current part start time, a second for the previous part start time, and a third for the difference. At the beginning of the part you would copy the data from the 'current' to 'previous' value, record the new 'current' value, and calculate the difference. If there is a way to display that third value on the screen you would get what you are after.

Thanks for the link! Going to try and get it setup today, or this week.

Mike1974 · Oct 28, 2020

Got it going on one machine. It's neat, but since my office is just outside the shop, it's not much of a useful tool for us. I could see multiple machines located further away from management, or whoever wants/needs to monitor cycle times and such...

Trueturning · Oct 28, 2020

I am sure there must be something convenient. At the end of a few cycles one knows how well a man/ woman is doing. I ran a Mazak years ago which was equipped with a spinning light on the top of the machine easily seen from a distance. It reminds me of the old spinning police car lights.

It worked fine alerting a forgetful employee or one who has a bad attention span. When the light burned out it was always the case that no one bothered to have a backup in stock and so the light would have been to wait to be changed out which I found to be ironic.

Mike1974 · Oct 28, 2020

Trueturning said:
I am sure there must be something convenient. At the end of a few cycles one knows how well a man/ woman is doing. I ran a Mazak years ago which was equipped with a spinning light on the top of the machine easily seen from a distance. It reminds me of the old spinning police car lights.

It worked fine alerting a forgetful employee or one who has a bad attention span. When the light burned out it was always the case that no one bothered to have a backup in stock and so the light would have been to wait to be changed out which I found to be ironic.

On Haas machines you can set it to beep at M30 or M01/M00. It's not much, but it does get noticed enough it's worth it, if you are really that into keeping the machine running...

Scruffy887 · Oct 28, 2020

I have one tied into a dog shock collar. Operator must reload and push green button within specified time or gets shocked. Not helping moral the way I thought it would.

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