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  1. #1
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    Default Cut - Off Thread Number ?

    I know that we just had a cut-off thread a few months ago, but I kan't find it.


    Has anyone used the actual Tool-Flo cut-off system?
    The bottom of page 75 (5?)
    It is a component system, and one thing that I find interesting is that you can just use a longer or shorter blade in it to go from 2.5" D to 3.5" D.

    "Component Holder"
    http://www.toolflo.com/catalogs/CUTOFF.pdf#page=5




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    I have not used that wedge pocket style cut-off much, and not in the last 20 yrs at all.
    I was not overly enamored with it back then, and saw no reason to try any more of it, but these days, it seems that is about the only type system out there anymore.

    Have you guys had good luck with that style?




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    I know that we posted this up recently, but since I kan't find that thread, what flavour cut-offs doo you have that you are having really good luck with?

    Doo they have a major selection of insert options?
    L/R?
    corner rad / sharp?
    Tight curl - chip breaker / "let that stringer flow" geometry?
    Harder / tougher grades?

    For my own personal info - I am more concerned with systems that will go to 2-5/8", not the little "Penta" units that are for Swiss machines and whatnot.

    I am primarily interested in the ones that can blow an insert when cutting 304 (because they doo) completely melt down the blade, and you can quickly just change the blade and insert, and be back in traffic aggin.


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Is this the thread you were looking for:

    How Many Parts Are You Getting With Your Parting Tool?

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    Could be?

    Would still appreciate posts to this thread tho too.


    edit:

    A re-read of that thread doesn't mention many specific inserts or systems, and it looks like I may be needing to get a new cut-off system for the first time in 25 years.
    (and I'm not overly happy about it!)


    So this thread is applicable anyhow.

    --------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    In my experience, those interchangeable screw on blades aren't worth it.
    Now my experience was 20 years ago when Valenite was selling them so they may have gotten a lot better since then.
    They loved to chatter.

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    I used a Manchester blade and inserts like the ToolFlo item at the top of the page (FCIVOR
    1/2”) till I could not get inserts for it anymore. I called Toolflo and their inserts for that top holder are copies of Manchester classic Seperators. I put a Hertal insert in the same holder and cutoff about 300 1/2-20 inch Allen screws and used the ToolFlo for the balance of 450 screws. The Hertal insert was still going when it was changed out and the ToolFlo was still cooking good when the job was over.

    The Manchester type holder has a screw top clamp and a positive back stop. In several years of use I never had any push back of the insert or change in center height like I had with the Iscar wedge type inserts and holders.

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    We picked up one of these Tang Grip systems and really like it.

    https://www.iscar.com/eCatalog/Famil...geType=4&rel=H

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    By searching for the Tang Grip specifically, I find several referrals for it.

    What else is someone using that they really like?


    --------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post

    Actually, I am surprised to see you recommend that style?

    I have been hearing about pull-out issues upon retraction with that type insert in dead length/sub spindle apps - which I would think that you have there?

    Or at least - you learn to retract the sub a bit before the X.


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Actually, I am surprised to see you recommend that style?

    I have been hearing about pull-out issues upon retraction with that type insert in dead length/sub spindle apps - which I would think that you have there?

    Or at least - you learn to retract the sub a bit before the X.


    -------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

    I don't run the big stuff. But I know that blade is a money maker in our application.

    I also know what they look like when you melt them, so....

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    Quote Originally Posted by FredC View Post
    I used a Manchester blade and inserts like the ToolFlo item at the top of the page (FCIVOR
    1/2”) till I could not get inserts for it anymore. I called Toolflo and their inserts for that top holder are copies of Manchester classic Seperators. I put a Hertal insert in the same holder and cutoff about 300 1/2-20 inch Allen screws and used the ToolFlo for the balance of 450 screws. The Hertal insert was still going when it was changed out and the ToolFlo was still cooking good when the job was over.

    The Manchester type holder has a screw top clamp and a positive back stop. In several years of use I never had any push back of the insert or change in center height like I had with the Iscar wedge type inserts and holders.
    We always used the Manchester stuff with great results, then Kennametal bought them and killed it in favor of their cutoff line. It appears as though Hertel (which appears to possibly be made by Kennametal in this case) is re-making the Manchester style tooling now. We have used a couple and they are running circles around the ISCAR 5 sided blades that we bought. Some of the sizes seem like the inserts are compatible with the Manchester inserts while others aren't. Worth a look. We are going to be using a lot of them. Interestingly, if you go to the "big book page" link on MSC's site, it shows Hertel and Kennametal together, since the inserts work in both.

    https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tnp...iABEgLlefD_BwE

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    Kenna has owned Manchester for a coons age.

    What other Kanna cut-off line?

    MSC gets their knock-off Manchester parts and inserts from Tool-Flo, but they don't offer the S2 inserts, and if you are only going to run the 1980's inserts, it's best to only be running 12L14, as that is what they were designed for back then. (marketed for single and multi-spindle screw machines originally.)


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post

    What other Kanna cut-off line?
    They have a few different cut off lines, but I think the newest one that would be comparable to the Manchester is the Beyond Evolution

    Beyond Evolution

    I used these for parting off some 2.25" 316SS and they worked well enough. (I've never found anything that worked great at parting off 316ss.)

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    I've not had much trouble with 316 so to speak, but with any stainless, if cutting to center, especially if it is of bigger diameter, I find it much better to cut to say .15" and then twist it off with the sub - is so optioned.


    ----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by 70olds View Post
    We always used the Manchester stuff with great results, then Kennametal bought them and killed it in favor of their cutoff line.
    Makes one wonder if picking up and going after the old Manchester line would be worth the rather huge entry costs.
    For sure it had many fans, worked very well and the patents gone.
    Downside a lot of dies involved and these pressing dies are not low cost.
    Hmmm...
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I've not had much trouble with 316 so to speak, but with any stainless, if cutting to center, especially if it is of bigger diameter, I find it much better to cut to say .15" and then twist it off with the sub - is so optioned.


    ----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    I will have to try that if I ever get a turning center with a sub.

    In this case I was parting off all of the way to center. It wasn't a big job (around 50 pieces IIRC), and I got through it using just two inserts, so I can't really complain about the performance of the tool. It got the job done.

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    I 2nd the Tang Grip. Used a bunch of others that worked well...till they didn't. Usually when insert popped or just fell out. Some tooling was not crazy about being pushed...others finicky about materials being run.

    Sales guy recommended I try these years ago...since then that is all we use for everything. Thin blade for less material loss and ease of cut and they cut straight. They sell angled for tube and less pip...but we tend to face everything anyway so don;t bother much.
    Are they as cheap as some others...no. But not losing a part, blade or dealing with resetting a new tool every month or two makes up for that.

    I don't buy from MSC, but here's what I use for thousands of cutoffs each week in SS, Steel, Alum, Brass etc.

    https://www.mscdirect.com/product/de...rItem=59790873

    https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/...08&hdrsrh=true



    No affiliation...just found they work best across the board for us.


    Oh...and of course you need to by the blade holder which are pretty standard.

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    I ended up ordering several units for the ISCAR Tang Grip.

    I got the big ones with the 4 corner square blade.
    Rep says that it's the best thing since sliced bread, so ...

    Buy the blade and 20 inserts and get a holder free.
    Sale ends tomorrow.


    ---------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Hey Ox, I know I'm a little late, but I wanted to mention that you can still get the Separator line from Widia. I've mostly gotten away from them in favor of the Widia WMT line. It's not quite what you want as the inserts are double sided so the reach isn't quite there. I can cut off about a 1-7/8" bar with my 3/32" WMT insert. The insert geometry looks like an exact copy of the Separator S2, so if you've got smaller diameter work where the S2 performs well, you might want to give these a try. Widia also recently launched a new single-sided insert line. I wonder if those have the same geometry.

    I don't do much work where I'm cutting off over 1-7/8" diameter to center, but when I do, I use an old style Sandvik Q-Cut. It works ok, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't something better out there.

    I have the Tang-Grip on one of my machines. I got it because the old style blade that was in there sometimes allowed the insert to get sucked out when cutting off with the sub-spindle like you described above. This is on an odd-ball machine with an overhead cut off slide, so you can't retract the sub until the cut off cuts and retracts. The Tang-Grip fixed that problem. It performs fine otherwise.

    Anyway, good luck with the Tang-Grip. Let us know how you like them.


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