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    checked out the trial. I like it...ill make sure to buy a seat this week when I get a chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allloutmx View Post
    I have no idea what your talking about
    I paid for my seat
    I think what he is saying is you gave the information to people on how to get around the license.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hertz View Post
    I think what he is saying is you gave the information to people on how to get around the license.
    yeah..I know...I feel pretty dumb about that too. I should have pm'd him on it.

    You would have to know enough about computers to be able to do that sort of thing, then you would have to be a crook as well.

    My deepest apologies Eldar...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    but any machinist worth anything will know roughly what a cutter can take sticking out various distances out from the tool holder or quickly take a few test cuts and record what works best.
    And if your part won't allow you a "few test cuts"?
    Tell me how fast you would run a 3/4" endmill 1-1/2" depth of cut in 4150pht taking a 7% stepover running a HSM toolpath? Or 10% stepover?
    While you're taking your test cuts to find the best S&F, I'm making parts.
    So in your infinite wisdom of 33 years experience, (myself I on'y have 26 years experience on cnc's) What would your speeds and feeds be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    And if your part won't allow you a "few test cuts"?
    Tell me how fast you would run a 3/4" endmill 1-1/2" depth of cut in 4150pht taking a 7% stepover running a HSM toolpath? Or 10% stepover?
    While you're taking your test cuts to find the best S&F, I'm making parts.
    So in your infinite wisdom of 33 years experience, (myself I on'y have 26 years experience on cnc's) What would your speeds and feeds be?
    I have to agree with the above statement. There is no shame in using a program to get your optimal speeds and feeds. Time is money and people don't have time to be doing excel spreadsheets and trying different combos to get a good cut. I stand by the HSM Advisor 100% and I have been CNC machining since 98. Not to say I couldn't get the speeds and feeds myself but it sure as hell would take longer than just punching the numbers in and saving the info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    And if your part won't allow you a "few test cuts"?
    Tell me how fast you would run a 3/4" endmill 1-1/2" depth of cut in 4150pht taking a 7% stepover running a HSM toolpath? Or 10% stepover?
    While you're taking your test cuts to find the best S&F, I'm making parts.
    So in your infinite wisdom of 33 years experience, (myself I on'y have 26 years experience on cnc's) What would your speeds and feeds be?
    .
    1) 1st i would use cutting tool manufacturer recommendations of speed and feed
    .
    2) we rarely use side milling as most work we have are castings where areas 3-5 inches wide and depth of 1/8" need removing where a rougher facemill in one pass at 30 ipm does it and gives the flatness tolerance required
    .
    3) programs we use are set at max where carbide insert failure or breakage can occur about 5% of the time so we start at reduced feed of 70% and see how it sounds and go to 80 or 90 or 100% if it can take it
    .
    4) in last 15 years most places i have worked you can get fired for using unapproved software. and most bigger machines have a computer near by and since i already have Excel open showing inspection checks checklist and setup info it takes roughly 1 second to confirm feed and speed with Excel spreadsheet

    5) also many places ban internet use and cell phone use during work as it is a waste of time magnet
    .
    feel free to waste your money on feed and speed software. Between CAM program setting recommended feeds and speeds and DOC and between operator monitoring things i have never seen the need for special software to calculate feed and speeds
    .
    and to answer another question when i have applied for CNC jobs in the past 15 years knowing how to use Microsoft Excel, Powerpoint, etc was part of the job requirements. Also in 33 years rarely have i ever seen a qualified machinist not use recommended feeds and speeds of the cutting tool manufacturer and adjust the feed during cutting up or down to get max cutting rate or the best finish, depending on needs. all machinist i have worked with were qualified professionals who could and usually did calculate the cutting tool recommended feeds and speeds

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    feel free to waste your money on feed and speed software.


    . all machinist i have worked with were qualified professionals who could and usually did calculate the cutting tool recommended feeds and speeds
    I think you're missing the whole point of this software.

    It's not for general finish machining or regular roughing, although it can be used for that.
    It's extremely handy for HSM.. High Speed Machining.
    When using the entire flute length of an endmill you can achieve superior MRR, so you need chip thinning.
    Doing so, your speeds and feeds are NOWHERE near the recommended by the manufacturer, they are much much higher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    Between CAM program setting recommended feeds and speeds and DOC and between operator monitoring things i have never seen the need for special software to calculate feed and speeds
    Not to sound rude or anything but you are looking at it from a narrow minded perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    Not to sound rude or anything but you are looking at it from a narrow minded perspective.
    i agree...I will say where he works, they are in a league of their own...machines so big Im not sure they can do HSM...BIG BIG

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    I used to hard turn roll forms at my last job (17 yrs ago?). They were roughed out, before heat treat, and my finish cut was .015" in D2 60HRC. I did get a lot of support from Kennemetal after torching a few diamond inserts, but I cant remember what speeds and feeds I was using then. Interesting video though.

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    I agree with DMF_Tom, though I don't understand why every post he makes has to be a bulleted list...

    Feeds and speeds are so easy to calculate. Once you get the recipe, you can mix and match the ingredients as you like. I figure it out once, store it in the CAM, and away I go.

    For job shop stuff, you can usually break it down into ferrous, non ferrous, and stainless. That's only a handful of numbers you need to remember.

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    Hmmm...
    I use to run mfg suggested specs for most everything...I still use those numbers now and again...
    but for HSM, and I know there is a formula for it, I have been very successful with the HSM Advisor software.

    Have you tried it yet? or any other HSM calcs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    I agree with DMF_Tom, though I don't understand why every post he makes has to be a bulleted list...

    Feeds and speeds are so easy to calculate. Once you get the recipe, you can mix and match the ingredients as you like. I figure it out once, store it in the CAM, and away I go.

    For job shop stuff, you can usually break it down into ferrous, non ferrous, and stainless. That's only a handful of numbers you need to remember.
    For normal cutting I agree, I don't even have to look up the recommended speeds and feeds, I have those all memorized for many different tools.
    BUT
    for high speed machining, there are too many variables to run test cuts, and the manufacturer recommended speeds and feeds are not for HSM.
    It's an entirely different animal. And the concept isn't that old, about a decade if I remember correctly. And it was "invented" by a couple of Navy engineers. Or so I read.

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    Long ago I bought G-wizard. I used it for a few months. Then I started reading some threads here, and I realized that it was incredibly conservative and meant for the hobbyist. I had a 3 year subscription and I have not even opened it in years. I see no need.

    The guy who wrote it, Bob Warfield, used to have a really good blog called CNCcookbook. Now, it's just a lame regurgitation of postings on hobby forums and drooling over 3D printers. He is not a machinist, and I don't think he has any clue about what actually works on a real CNC machine.

    I have a few charts I reference, but most of it I can do from memory.

    I like rules of thumb:

    Cobalt drills - stainless 60 SFM 4 IPM, steel 100 SFM 7 IPM, Aluminum 200 SFM 15 IPM

    End mills slotting - Stainless N/A, Steel 500-600 SFM 20-50 IPM 1XD, Aluminum 1500 SFM, 80+ IPM 1.5XD

    End mills HSM - Basically, 1.5-2 times the SFM, 4 times the chip load for slotting, 10% stepover. It's a waste of time for aluminum.

    Face mills and indexable - Stainless 400 SFM .006/tooth, Steel 800 - 1200 SFM, .008/tooth, Alminum 2500+ SFM .01/tooth

    Turning - Stainless 400 SFM, Steel 800-1200 SFM, Aluminum 2500+ SFM .01-.015/rev for all


    Those numbers get me in the ball park. I can pull up a quick chart or past program to do better.

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    Rules of thumb should never be based on IPM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    It's a waste of time for aluminum.
    Sometimes it can be, but it's dependent on the toolpath application.
    Other times HSM in aluminum will run circles around conventional cutting toolpaths.
    I used to think that no way in hell could a 1/2" endmill remove more material in a faster time than my 1-1/2" Mitsubishi indexable which I was pushing hard.
    Boy was I wrong!

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    Lol...i use to think 200sfm 3056 rpm and 30ipm in a2 with a 1/2"EM was really movin...

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    I think we all terribly deviated from the topic here.
    But i am gonna make one more offtopic post.

    I am not using PM forums to push my software on to people. And i am not trying to sell it to everybody here.
    Whenever a huppy customer mentions my software, it is not because i asked him to.
    It is because he feels it would have been beneficial in this particular case.

    I am not even making any money on it if you account for the time i spend on it.

    I know it helps me to use it a lot. And if it helps me, it is bound to help many other machinists.

    Machining Is not my hobby. It what i do for a living

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    Long ago I bought G-wizard. I used it for a few months. Then I started reading some threads here, and I realized that it was incredibly conservative and meant for the hobbyist. I had a 3 year subscription and I have not even opened it in years. I see no need.

    The guy who wrote it, Bob Warfield, used to have a really good blog called CNCcookbook. Now, it's just a lame regurgitation of postings on hobby forums and drooling over 3D printers. He is not a machinist, and I don't think he has any clue about what actually works on a real CNC machine.

    I have a few charts I reference, but most of it I can do from memory.

    I like rules of thumb:

    Cobalt drills - stainless 60 SFM 4 IPM, steel 100 SFM 7 IPM, Aluminum 200 SFM 15 IPM

    End mills slotting - Stainless N/A, Steel 500-600 SFM 20-50 IPM 1XD, Aluminum 1500 SFM, 80+ IPM 1.5XD

    End mills HSM - Basically, 1.5-2 times the SFM, 4 times the chip load for slotting, 10% stepover. It's a waste of time for aluminum.

    Face mills and indexable - Stainless 400 SFM .006/tooth, Steel 800 - 1200 SFM, .008/tooth, Alminum 2500+ SFM .01/tooth

    Turning - Stainless 400 SFM, Steel 800-1200 SFM, Aluminum 2500+ SFM .01-.015/rev for all


    Those numbers get me in the ball park. I can pull up a quick chart or past program to do better.
    Most of this looks pretty good...but I dont think I can concur with you on the drilling..you wouldnt feed an .03 drill the same as you would say a .500 drill

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    Long ago I bought G-wizard. I used it for a few months. Then I started reading some threads here, and I realized that it was incredibly conservative and meant for the hobbyist. I had a 3 year subscription and I have not even opened it in years. I see no need.

    The guy who wrote it, Bob Warfield, used to have a really good blog called CNCcookbook. Now, it's just a lame regurgitation of postings on hobby forums and drooling over 3D printers. He is not a machinist, and I don't think he has any clue about what actually works on a real CNC machine.
    You're right, Bob Warfield is not a professional machinist and never has been.
    To give him credit, he is a silicon valley-type serial software entrepreneur responsible for creating some very big software brand names, and obviously has used this to good effect when he created his G-Wizard software to help with his hobby machining pursuits on his Chinese home-shop grade machines. I've nothing personally against Bob, but would be loathe to take machining advice from someone whose knowledge comes mainly from being a voracious reader. But he's making money from it and I can't knock that at all, so good for him.

    Here are his early notes on "this Metal business.." Machine Tools

    As for me, well I'm a hobby machinist too. But I also own an Injection Moulding and Toolmaking business ( AML - Engineering In Plastics ), but my partner runs the Toolroom exclusively whilst I design the mould tools he makes, and I did apprentice and qualify as a Toolmaker 35 years ago before giving up the shop floor for a tie and a drawing board and then going back to University for several years.
    I have however used the very excellent HSM Advisor for my hobby machining and what it can achieve even on an underpowered low-mass hobby CNC is quite amazing. I'm a fan.


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