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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    Small world....as there weren't many of them around....and not many within 30 miles....I'm 99.9% sure that kettle was ported/tuned by a one time business partner of mine (years before I had the business with him)....
    I thought for a while of trying to replicate that bike, I have a Rickman with a Honda 750 engine that would work except the Rickmans are now fetching good money, but if I could find a good roller it might be possible. I need one last project to see me out

    There are quite a few articles and porting maps on the internet, I remember there was a port map for Barry Sheene's TR750 cylinders.
    Miscellaneous 750 port tracings - Suzuki 2 Strokes

    Not sure I can think of a more pedestrian bike than a GT750 to start off with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    Not sure I can think of a more pedestrian bike than a GT750 to start off with.
    The water buffalo ? I think Baumann got off one of those at 175. Everyone was like, "omigod". They went fast but don't remember them finishing too often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    The water buffalo ? I think Baumann got off one of those at 175. Everyone was like, "omigod". They went fast but don't remember them finishing too often.
    And Barry Sheene at Daytona, 1975 on the XR11 triple

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    And Barry Sheene at Daytona, 1975 on the XR11 triple
    Need a link to video of him finishing second to KR in a one-on-one ?

    I think the best ride on a buffalo was Jody Nicholas, who won a national in the wet on one of those behemoths

    Sheene was okay tho, if you like the playboy type. Had balls for sure, to get back on after a few of his crashes.

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  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    I thought for a while of trying to replicate that bike

    Not sure I can think of a more pedestrian bike than a GT750 to start off with.
    There's a few I've seen on the net with inverted front ends that look really cool.
    Yes - the kettle was really smooth with plenty of torque.



    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post

    Sheene was okay tho, if you like the playboy type. Had balls for sure, to get back on after a few of his crashes.
    Lol @ okay. Twice world champ and '78 going to the wire...
    Also worth a read 135.067mph: the fastest GP of all time - Motor Sport Magazine

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  8. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    Lol @ okay. Twice world champ and '78 going to the wire...
    Until Kenny came along ....

    There was a story ... Ron Grant, maybe ? Yuropeens are so dashing and such great racers, 'murricans just flub around in the dirt, ya know. (Hailwood I'll go with, but the rest ... )

    So Ron Grant (I think, could have been another furriner of about that level) was in the area and Belland got him a ride for a half-mile or mile race. Maybe San Jose ? He put his leathers on, got out to the haybales, watched first practice go by, went back to the van, took his leathers off, and shut up.

    If you can't run a half-mile, you aren't a real motorcycle racer.

    Barry probaby woulda tried it, but .... his personality was great but if he had run AMA, he'd have had to try harder. A lot harder. Mid 60's to mid-70's AMA was the golden age for competitive bike racing.

  9. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Until Kenny came along ....

    There was a story ... Ron Grant, maybe ? Yuropeens are so dashing and such great racers, 'murricans just flub around in the dirt, ya know. (Hailwood I'll go with, but the rest ... )

    So Ron Grant (I think, could have been another furriner of about that level) was in the area and Belland got him a ride for a half-mile or mile race. Maybe San Jose ? He put his leathers on, got out to the haybales, watched first practice go by, went back to the van, took his leathers off, and shut up.

    If you can't run a half-mile, you aren't a real motorcycle racer.

    Barry probaby woulda tried it, but .... his personality was great but if he had run AMA, he'd have had to try harder. A lot harder. Mid 60's to mid-70's AMA was the golden age for competitive bike racing.
    Yes, Kenny.
    But then came Freddie who was just out and out fast.
    But fragile.
    And then came Casey Stoner. The only person that (to me) made such an immediate impact of speed on a bike, as Freddie.
    And then came Mark Marquez. Who then raised the bar higher still, and has made loose riding an art form.

    All the current lads are expert motox and hard pack oval riders. And all are faster than the previous era.
    Fitter and faster, and all been on a bike since 3 years old.
    The game has changed, and they have all long realised what it takes to now get to the top.

    Barrys era was more fun though.
    By far.

    And Kenny is still the King.
    Kenny Roberts and the Indy Mile (2009) - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    No one who is any good will help. This is their livelihood.

    Joe Mondello was passionate about passing the knowledge.
    He was a great help to me looking at a CAT 3208 for tractor pulling.
    He had an institute to teach and pass on the knowledge.

    Actually, I had an impressive list of famous guys who were very eager to help out.

    Notably absent on that list was Crane, and Jessel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Until Kenny came along ....

    There was a story ... Ron Grant, maybe ? Yuropeens are so dashing and such great racers, 'murricans just flub around in the dirt, ya know. (Hailwood I'll go with, but the rest ... )

    So Ron Grant (I think, could have been another furriner of about that level) was in the area and Belland got him a ride for a half-mile or mile race. Maybe San Jose ? He put his leathers on, got out to the haybales, watched first practice go by, went back to the van, took his leathers off, and shut up.

    If you can't run a half-mile, you aren't a real motorcycle racer. .
    Bollocks, that only proves that Ron Grant (or someother unwashed European) had bigger brains than balls. Itís ludicrous to think anybody is going to jump on a flat tracker and compete on a half mile or mile with no experience. European racers didnít grow up racing flat track.

    If Barry Sheene, Ron Grant, Phil Reed etc had raced flat track, in the same system that produced for instance Kenny Roberts, well they would have been just as good.

    Last time I checked there was no half-mile or mile flattrack in England.

    Going to a National flat track is impressive, but itís still go straight, turn left, go straight, turn left ad infinitum. Personally I find Outdoor Motocross more impressive, or Supercross for that matter.

    Having said that I was at the last National at Ascot, watching the bikes pitch into turn 1 is something Iíll never forget.
    Or Springsteen doing a demo ride on a TZ750 at Del Mar. I canít remember if it was KRís or Steve Bakers old bike, that was beyond impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Barry probaby woulda tried it, but .... his personality was great but if he had run AMA, he'd have had to try harder. A lot harder. Mid 60's to mid-70's AMA was the golden age for competitive bike racing.
    Barry Sheene would have been at the top, no doubt he would have been very competitive, as would have a lot of other English racers.

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  13. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    ......
    And then came Casey Stoner. The only person that (to me) made such an immediate impact of speed on a bike, as Freddie.....
    Stoner has recently been quoted as saying one reason he retired relatively early was that the switch to 4 strokes and computerization took away some of the skill required to tame a GP bike. He preferred the wildness of the two stroke 500s. Having started my roadracing experience on Yamaha two strokes, and later switching to 4 strokes, and now riding a bike with relatively sophisticated electronics, I agree there is some truth in that.


    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    ......And then came Mark Marquez. Who then raised the bar higher still, and has made loose riding an art form......
    Loose riding is the norm in MotoGP up to the point that riders have to manage tire wear and handling changes due to tire wear. Takes a bunch of skill no doubt but there is an awful lot of help being provided by the computer on the bike. The computerization was going so far that the FIM restricted all teams to using the same Magneti Marelli hardware and firmware. Teams do their own setups and configurations to suit their machines and riders.


    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    ......All the current lads are expert motox and hard pack oval riders. And all are faster than the previous era.......
    KR was the pioneer of the use of dirt track skills crossing over to roadracing. The US riders dominance of the 80s and early 90s was because of that dirt track experience. Once younger generations of European and other nations riders gained that experience the reign of US riders dominance ended.

    I had the good fortune to attend the Dutch TT and Belgian GP in 1984. Watching Freddie Spencer and Randy Mamola at Spa Francorchamps powersliding the turns and then getting a little wheelie on exit in the rain during the practice sessions was an amazing sight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    European racers didn’t grow up racing flat track.
    Not only didn't do it, didn't want to do it. Dirt, eeeuw ...

    To do well in AMA you had to get points in short track, half mile, mile, TT, and roadracing. And do it on a production bike. Much more of an all-around thing.

    You probably forgot that Roberts went to Europe because it was easier than running AMA

    If Barry Sheene, Ron Grant, Phil Reed etc had raced flat track, in the same system that produced for instance Kenny Roberts, well they would have been just as good.
    Now that's going to be a hard statement to back up. Kenny seems to have done pretty well for himself running against those guys.

    I just wish Mark Brelsford hadn't been so fragile

    Going to a National flat track is impressive, but it’s still go straight, turn left, go straight, turn left ad infinitum.
    That's what Ron Grant thought, too

    (To be fair, I could be mistaken about whom we are talking about here.)

    And the trick with flat track is not the high-speed riding - that's only a small part. It's the racing (which has gone away since there is so little competition now.) It's strategy, thinking ahead, planning your next move, and running close (guys would come in with tire marks all over their left legs). Dirt cars similar. It's nowhere near as easy as it looks. Different skills, but just as difficult as pavement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Stoner has recently been quoted as saying one reason he retired relatively early was that the switch to 4 strokes and computerization took away some of the skill required to tame a GP bike. He preferred the wildness of the two stroke 500s. Having started my roadracing experience on Yamaha two strokes, and later switching to 4 strokes, and now riding a bike with relatively sophisticated electronics, I agree there is some truth in that.




    Loose riding is the norm in MotoGP up to the point that riders have to manage tire wear and handling changes due to tire wear. Takes a bunch of skill no doubt but there is an awful lot of help being provided by the computer on the bike. The computerization was going so far that the FIM restricted all teams to using the same Magneti Marelli hardware and firmware. Teams do their own setups and configurations to suit their machines and riders.




    KR was the pioneer of the use of dirt track skills crossing over to roadracing. The US riders dominance of the 80s and early 90s was because of that dirt track experience. Once younger generations of European and other nations riders gained that experience the reign of US riders dominance ended.

    I had the good fortune to attend the Dutch TT and Belgian GP in 1984. Watching Freddie Spencer and Randy Mamola at Spa Francorchamps powersliding the turns and then getting a little wheelie on exit in the rain during the practice sessions was an amazing sight.
    I hadn't heard that quote from Casey. It is widely reported that he fell out of love because of the PR chit. He hated all the corporate BS and wanted to just race.

    Marquez - yes I fully understand they're all "loose" on the boke, but what we all have to remember about the lad, is that no one has tamed the Honda. It can be argued that the bike is engineered around him and his style, but no one can ride it at the front. It is notoriously difficult to ride as it has no front end feel.
    Not even (5x champ) Lorenzo, who could be argued as the greatest in the current era.
    As he is the only one to have won a championship while racing against Marquez, Stoner, Rossi, Pedrosa all at their peak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Once younger generations of European and other nations riders gained that experience the reign of US riders dominance ended.
    I would put the blame elsewhere. The AMA ruined racing in the US. Class C meant there'd be thousands of kids who could afford to go racing. There was a huge pool of potential talent.

    Then stadiumcross came along and gobbled up a bunch of talent, then the AMA started to let the manufacturer's homologate 25 bikes instead of 200. Then they split the series into dirt and pavement ... basically, they butchered the best training program the world had seen.

    They did this so they could be Big Stars on teevee, but the end result was people quit doing it.

    I guess everything has its time and place but the AMA is to blame for much of what happened to motorcycle racing in the US.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post

    If you can't run a half-mile, you aren't a real motorcycle racer.
    I wonder how mny h-lf mile r-cres would risk their necks on the Isle of M-n, or on the Irish ro-d courses, those ro-ds sort the men from the boys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    I wonder how mny h-lf mile r-cres would risk their necks on the Isle of M-n, or on the Irish ro-d courses, those ro-ds sort the men from the boys.
    The Irish road races and Southern 100, are the best/closest/maddest tarmac racing there is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    .

    Then stadiumcross came along and gobbled up a bunch of talent, .
    Oh my. staiumcross. not motocross but more like bicycle racing.
    Small track, big air and tricks for the crowd.
    This is not ridding it is a show. First time I rode the Silverdome I was like WTF. This is not motocross, no endurance here, a sprint.
    Like running a 100 yard vs a mile.
    But it does pay big money so that is good.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Oh my. stadiumcross.
    Small track, big air and tricks for the crowd.
    This is not ridding it is a show.
    My opinion as well ... but it gobbled up a lot of kids who normally would have become novices.

    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    I wonder how mny h-lf mile r-cres would risk their necks on the Isle of M-n, or on the Irish ro-d courses, those ro-ds sort the men from the boys.
    I've known a few who went (Pat Hennen, for instance - he used to run at Sears with a suzuki twin that sounded like shredding concrete) but if you were racing for points, not a chance. There's a race every weekend and you can't afford to miss one.

    btw, that was the same kind of talk about all American road racers ... until Kenny went to Europe


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