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    Does anyone have experience with DATRON cnc mills? Watching videos they seem like a quick little machine that would be great for making EDM electrodes with the high spindle speeds and they seem to be fast, accurate machines.... can’t seem to find much info on them online just wondering if anyone has ran one before? Thanks everyone

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    Quote Originally Posted by HSM_CHIEF View Post
    Does anyone have experience with DATRON cnc mills? Watching videos they seem like a quick little machine that would be great for making EDM electrodes with the high spindle speeds and they seem to be fast, accurate machines.... can’t seem to find much info on them online just wondering if anyone has ran one before? Thanks everyone
    My impression of them is that they are not that precise or accurate.


    BUT cool in other ways, such as really forward thinking control / nice design.

    They use alcohol as a lubricant/ cutting fluid... So the machine can be used in a more office / studio like context.

    If you have card carrying alcoholics at your facilities then having ethanol vapors permeate the work space may not be the kindest thing.


    Great for more geeked out prototyping projects for commercial purposes like computer industry.


    So large flat aluminum (stock) type shapes are good. (basically gantry type router with higher tolerance + really nice design and well thought out unique elements and functionality; it's not a micro machining platform from the likes of Makino (for example).



    Don't really rate their 5 axis capability but ONE DAY they may get there.

    Also the machines are kinda expensive for what they are but that may be because they are NICE … More design studio type environment.

    FWIW I'd take a DATRON over a 3d printer.

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    Hmm interesting from what I gathered about the M7HP I think the HP stands for “high precision” it has finer ball screws and better scales for better positional feedback... would you consider them more accurate then let’s say a HAAS? Also you’d think there has to be something special about them to justify the up 100k price tag for a machine.... like I said I don’t really know much about them just trying to gather some more info on them! Thanks

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    I have not run one but I know two people who have. One is a guy who wanted to start out making aluminum parts he came up with and took out a loan to buy one. He had to learn the whole CAD/CAM thing and machining as well. He is very happy with the machine, but of course he doesn't have any reference point. The other guy has a machine shop and wanted to make custom face plates from aluminum for computer server racks (like so big companies can have their logo on it to look nice when giving tours of their office and such). He pretty much wanted a production machine for that job and that's why he got the Datron. I think he only runs about 2 or 3 tools in the thing and they buy pre-cut blanks and just have the customer choose whatever engraving they want on it. Again, they are happy with the machine.

    In both cases, I can't understand why or how the machine could possibly be better than a Brother Speedio which costs the same or less, but to each their own. I have seen the videos online and it seems to have less capabilities and inferior finishes to a Brother or Robodrill. But maybe there is something I am missing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HSM_CHIEF View Post
    Hmm interesting from what I gathered about the M7HP I think the HP stands for “high precision” it has finer ball screws and better scales for better positional feedback... would you consider them more accurate then let’s say a HAAS? Also you’d think there has to be something special about them to justify the up 100k price tag for a machine.... like I said I don’t really know much about them just trying to gather some more info on them! Thanks

    It's high precision for a router ? It's basically a beefed up gantry router not in the same league as real machine tool


    When someone says high precision to me I think Hermle, Okuma and Makino … Maybe OKK and some Matsuura.


    Ask them for ball bar tests and test sheets...

    For accuracy I'd take HAAS over a Datron… However Datron has super fast spindles for tiny tools.


    Accuracy and precision are two different things and 40K spindle can do things that a 10K spindle cannot.




    The Datron is GOOD for exactly what their videos show it be good at... Flat Aluminum and plastics and the occasional musical instrument like a "flute" on a cobbled together 4th axis.

    No free lunch I'm afraid :-)


    Pick up the phone and ask for test sheets and the realistic expectations for precisions and accuracies as well as precisions and accuracies on ISO type test parts. They are German they will know exactly what you are asking for.

    Does it have 3 to 5 micron circularity as cut (or 8 to 10 micron part accuracy) … I don't think so same for ball bar tests...

    What are the reversal spikes like... How is the machine thermally controlled etc etc etc etc etc...

    The Datron IS what it is … If that suit your application and wants then FANTASTIC (sports fans)!


    The term "High Precision" is truly meaningless without actual values and tests sheets as well as numerics stated to actual statistical relevance / use of standard deviations etc. [One sigma, two sigma etc.].

    Like DMG Mori brochures always say "Highest Precision" … I'm like highest precision in reference to what... ? [In reference to the same model of machine they made 20 years ago ?].

    Blah blah blah ad infinitum (lecture not necessary).

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    I have not run one but I know two people who have. One is a guy who wanted to start out making aluminum parts he came up with and took out a loan to buy one. He had to learn the whole CAD/CAM thing and machining as well. He is very happy with the machine, but of course he doesn't have any reference point. The other guy has a machine shop and wanted to make custom face plates from aluminum for computer server racks (like so big companies can have their logo on it to look nice when giving tours of their office and such). He pretty much wanted a production machine for that job and that's why he got the Datron. I think he only runs about 2 or 3 tools in the thing and they buy pre-cut blanks and just have the customer choose whatever engraving they want on it. Again, they are happy with the machine.

    In both cases, I can't understand why or how the machine could possibly be better than a Brother Speedio which costs the same or less, but to each their own. I have seen the videos online and it seems to have less capabilities and inferior finishes to a Brother or Robodrill. But maybe there is something I am missing?
    I'd take a robodrill, speedio and other that you have mentioned over a Datron… For my applications etc.


    However the Datron seems to be good at really really fiddly and intricate flat stuff...
    ? And you can put it in a design office next to the coffee machine... Can't do that with a Robodrill in an office environment... Does not do nice things to carpet and is pretty noisy compared to the Datron.

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    Hahah well thanks for the info.... like I said were just exploring some options right now makino F3 is one we’ve been looking into and the Okuma M460 but we need More spindle speed were strapped at 12k right now... have you ran an Okuma before?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HSM_CHIEF View Post
    Hahah well thanks for the info.... like I said were just exploring some options right now makino F3 is one we’ve been looking into and the Okuma M460 but we need More spindle speed were strapped at 12k right now... have you ran an Okuma before?
    You'll find a lot of VERY happy Okuma M560 owners here... If you have the floor space, the M560 isn't much more money than the M460... With IMTS coming up, should be able to get a pretty good deal. I purchased mine at IMTS 2016 and got lifetime warranty on the control. Doesn't cover maintenance or mechanicals - but the electronic bits will never covered forever. Haven't heard what they will offer for the show special this year...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooner View Post
    You'll find a lot of VERY happy Okuma M560 owners here... If you have the floor space, the M560 isn't much more money than the M460... With IMTS coming up, should be able to get a pretty good deal. I purchased mine at IMTS 2016 and got lifetime warranty on the control. Doesn't cover maintenance or mechanicals - but the electronic bits will never covered forever. Haven't heard what they will offer for the show special this year...
    Do you know if they offer a higher spindle option then 15k.... we’re trying to get more and more into the hard milling side of things compared to making electrodes and burning... often we have to use .020ball end mills so we would like bare minimum 20k spindle... I’ve heard great things about the Okuma motion control with super nurbs.... floor space is def a concern of ours tho

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    Quote Originally Posted by HSM_CHIEF View Post
    Do you know if they offer a higher spindle option then 15k.... we’re trying to get more and more into the hard milling side of things compared to making electrodes and burning... often we have to use .020ball end mills so we would like bare minimum 20k spindle... I’ve heard great things about the Okuma motion control with super nurbs.... floor space is def a concern of ours tho
    Not 100% certain, but pretty sure you need to go up to the MB-46 / MB-56 to get higher than 15k RPM. The MB series is customizable - the Genos series doesn't have very many available options, although it is mostly the same stuff in the machine.

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    Okuma m560...you mean the machine that kulls itself from chips and chunks of material. I could not believe how poorly the chip control is on that machine. It is like it was designed with no chips in mind...little to no clearance between table and sides and a shelf for chips.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooner View Post
    Not 100% certain, but pretty sure you need to go up to the MB-46 / MB-56 to get higher than 15k RPM. The MB series is customizable - the Genos series doesn't have very many available options, although it is mostly the same stuff in the machine.
    Thanks for the info Mooner! Also looking at the CMX1100.... by DMG that also comes with 15K spindle but I believe you can get a 20K were torn between a full blown hard mill Like a sodick or Makino or a more versatile machine like a CMX or OKUMA.

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    Brother Speedio has a really nice 27k rpm spindle available on the S700 and S500.

    Speedio High Speed - YouTube

    We were running an aluminum demo as well as this steel demo below at the Westec show. The Datron booth was right across the aisle and people were blown away with the 27k Speedio.

    Iscar, Mastercam X9 and Brother Speedio S7 X1 - YouTube

    0 to 27k in .6 seconds. rated for 10,000 hours at 27k, 20,000 hours at 24k. 6 year track record, 33 years for Brother. I have clients running these since they first came out 6 years ago with the original spindles. New replacement spindle about $5k and a couple of hours to replace if required.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    Brother Speedio has a really nice 27k rpm spindle available on the S700 and S500.

    Speedio High Speed - YouTube

    We were running an aluminum demo as well as this steel demo below at the Westec show. The Datron booth was right across the aisle and people were blown away with the 27k Speedio.

    Iscar, Mastercam X9 and Brother Speedio S7 X1 - YouTube

    0 to 27k in .6 seconds. rated for 10,000 hours at 27k, 20,000 hours at 24k. 6 year track record, 33 years for Brother. I have clients running these since they first came out 6 years ago with the original spindles. New replacement spindle about $5k and a couple of hours to replace if required.
    Man that aluminum video is pretty crazy that thing looks super smooth! We’re looking to do that kind of cutting on RC 56-62 tool steel.... what’s the spindle taper on that machine? The brothers could be another option for us too I like the small footprint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HSM_CHIEF View Post
    Hahah well thanks for the info.... like I said were just exploring some options right now makino F3 is one we’ve been looking into and the Okuma M460 but we need More spindle speed were strapped at 12k right now... have you ran an Okuma before?
    Your logic is sound for checking out Datron; I did check out the Datron thing but can't make it work for the type of work I have to do*

    Okuma I wish...

    Barely a week goes by trying to persuade myself (relentlessly pouring over the proposals and deeper technical info) to buy the Okuma M-460V 5ax … That has 15K rpm spindle. It is real upgrade from the MU 400 VII that used cost about $550K -> $600K . M 460V 5ax is about $270-300K +

    I'd love an excuse to buy an F3...

    The test sheets for the Makino Ps 95 and 65 are impressive as hell but I wish they had a more advanced control. The P professional improved Fanuc control is still not the same as the F3's control in terms of contouring... IF they pout the F3's control onto the NEW Makino Ps 105/ Ps 65 B that would be a real winner , but then that would potentially interfere with some sales of the F3.

    Folks here have made some good suggestions.

    @HSM Chief any kind of budget ? What spindle speed would be to high for what you need, what the max in your opinion ?





    __________________________________________________ _______________________________________________

    * RE: Datron: Would I like a quite machine built on a granite slab that sits between my shop floor and my office to make all my parts, where I can alternately light my farts and then light the Datron exhaust flue (ethanol vapors) and see which goes off with a bigger bang? Hell YEAH... But unfortunately my parts / applications don't live in the Datron "Universe" … I hope they do well. And maybe one day they branch out more. (Who knows).

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    Quote Originally Posted by HSM_CHIEF View Post
    Do you know if they offer a higher spindle option then 15k.... we’re trying to get more and more into the hard milling side of things compared to making electrodes and burning... often we have to use .020ball end mills so we would like bare minimum 20k spindle... I’ve heard great things about the Okuma motion control with super nurbs.... floor space is def a concern of ours tho
    Ideally what size of table / fixturing are you needing / wanting? Anything leaning towards future automation ?

    Hard milling and really decent precision would any of the OKK offerings suit you ?

    They have fine pitch ball screws and really decent iron, not sure on maximum spindle speeds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HSM_CHIEF View Post
    Thanks for the info Mooner! Also looking at the CMX1100.... by DMG that also comes with 15K spindle but I believe you can get a 20K were torn between a full blown hard mill Like a sodick or Makino or a more versatile machine like a CMX or OKUMA.
    I thought the problem with the CMX is that you can't get a 20K spindle... A lot of people have been asking for that. (maybe they/DMG caved on that ?).


    I'm wracking my brains for stuff I've seen with a 40K spindle option (I'm not in the MIKRON universe)…


    There is NEW MAZAK 5 axis machine that does have a 40K spindle (I think) for hard materials , electrodes and hard milling -ish..


    UD-4/5X



    ^^^ I'm sure this will be turning up at IMTS … 45K rpm spindle...

    I have no idea on price I assume north of $400K ? *

    __________________________________________________ ______________________________________


    * No affiliation

    ** Sorry I'm not doing well on the 3 axis front as it seems a lot of 5 axis advanced platforms have the fast spindles for modern approaches to mold work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Ideally what size of table / fixturing are you needing / wanting? Anything leaning towards future automation ?

    Hard milling and really decent precision would any of the OKK offerings suit you ?

    They have fine pitch ball screws and really decent iron, not sure on maximum spindle speeds.
    I really don’t see a future with crazy automation right now... fixturing would be pretty simple a few 3R mini blocks and EROWA holders.... most of our electrodes are let’s say smaller 3inches by 3 inches .... like I said tho hard mill is the ultimate goal.... We’re currently making electrodes on a haas vm machine i really have no complaints about it other then thermal expansion of the spindle and the motion control really isn’t that great when running true 3D toolpaths it gets choppy at times especially in small moves so we’re looking to improve in that aspect so we can make more complex trodes quicker along with better surface finishes . I’ve tried hard milling On it and it does okay on some jobs but the surface finishes just aren’t what we’re looking for... I would really like a 30K spindle and let’s say a max of 48k would be absolutely plenty.... and budget of let’s say sub 170k....

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    Quote Originally Posted by HSM_CHIEF View Post
    I really don’t see a future with crazy automation right now... fixturing would be pretty simple a few 3R mini blocks and EROWA holders.... most of our electrodes are let’s say smaller 3inches by 3 inches .... like I said tho hard mill is the ultimate goal.... We’re currently making electrodes on a haas vm machine i really have no complaints about it other then thermal expansion of the spindle and the motion control really isn’t that great when running true 3D toolpaths it gets choppy at times especially in small moves so we’re looking to improve in that aspect so we can make more complex trodes quicker along with better surface finishes . I’ve tried hard milling On it and it does okay on some jobs but the surface finishes just aren’t what we’re looking for... I would really like a 30K spindle and let’s say a max of 48k would be absolutely plenty.... and budget of let’s say sub 170k....
    OK "Roger that"..

    Will put thinking cap on and do some digging around, I understand why the F3 would be appealing.

    Need to comb through spindle options that I normally ignore as I'm not "Trode-guy" not mold guy but do need one really straight axis / decent rigidity and thermal control (usually some overlap).

    I'm wondering about something in the Matsuura "Ecosystem" too that is 3 axis / reincarnated .

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    Planning on going to IMTS this September? Yamazen will have every Brother model, and some new stuff I am told, in the booth. Worth checking out and be pleasantly surprised. I will be there Monday thru Saturday. Yamazen will gladly arrange test cuts for you with your applications I am sure. Spindle is BT30 with Big Plus optional on 27K.

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