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Deep groove Turning advice needed

ben04

Plastic
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
I'm in need of some advice please.. I have a job in 714 stainless, it requires a face groove ID 125mm-80mm so (22.5mm wide) by 142 mm deep. at the bottom is a form.
I've scoured online for tooling to do the job and I'm coming up short, cant find small boring bars long enough, need a small bar for the retract on the tool, id need 2 bars one upside down to machine the other face of the groove.

Machine I'm using is a Mazak quick turn 400, programming in mazatrol. Uk based

Thanks
 
A picture would help. If I'm understanding correctly this sounds like a PITA. Trepanning is probably the way to get the majority of the material out. If you have live tools, there are a few more options to get the appropriate shape in the bottom
 
For the non-metric speaking - you need a face groove approx .87" wide by 5.5" deep?!!! :eek:
I have no idea where you would even get a groove tool that could do that, except home-made / frankenstein.

If I were going to mill it, it would be with 2, maybe 3, different end mills of increasing flute length and / or reduced neck length.
 
I did post a cropped image from the dxf ..but was told to delete it.. so here is a super snazzy MS paint depiction:


Green highlighted area I need to turn

PM dere.jpg
 
Looks like you could use a face grooving tool 79 mm deep if you turn the shoulder first. Still a long reach. After its roughed out the fun begins. L shaped custom made boring tools or altered standard inserts will probably be your only option. I don't know of any standard tooling that will work.
 
It's a part that needs to be re-engineered. Whether it's the geometry or the process. I would push for 2 different pieces, either pressed together, bolted together or welded.

R
 
...It's a part that needs to be re-engineered. Whether it's the geometry or the process...

That was my first thought. Who designs this shit anyway? Just another example of a part designed/engineered by
someone who has no clue as to how it would actually be made.
 
Thats almost and inch of room between o.d and i.d. which is plenty

your going to need three tools only because of the smaller groove at the very back.
face groove tool for this (your choice of types iscar sandvick etc etc

for the i.d a ph horn tool would work best about .625 dia solid carbide
for the od groove 5/8 left hand horn tool or a 2 series left hand top lock sanvick tool.
it can be done no problem, toolings going to be pricey as well as the parts but I am sure they know that.
 
Delw, I believe you really know what you're talking about. I'm not going to do a search right now. But that smaller Groove in the bottom of the Bore looks roughly half the 22mm. Getting a Face Groove tool that small 3.11" deep is not off the shelf stuff.

R
 
It's a part that needs to be re-engineered. Whether it's the geometry or the process. I would push for 2 different pieces, either pressed together, bolted together or welded.

R

In the ideal world yeah, but its already been quoted, accepted and half machined :hole:

I'm guessing 714ss is really 17-4 stainless. I'm gonna be on the it needs to be redesigned or burned with edm...

yeah sorry typo, 17-4 stainless, cutting fairly nice so far in fairness..

Thats almost and inch of room between o.d and i.d. which is plenty

your going to need three tools only because of the smaller groove at the very back.
face groove tool for this (your choice of types iscar sandvick etc etc

for the i.d a ph horn tool would work best about .625 dia solid carbide
for the od groove 5/8 left hand horn tool or a 2 series left hand top lock sanvick tool.
it can be done no problem, toolings going to be pricey as well as the parts but I am sure they know that.

I'll check these out, main concern I have is the retract of the bar after each cut, not sure how to change that parameter :scratchchin:
 
The guy that designed that part and the guy who quoted it should be taken out and shot.
 
Delw, I believe you really know what you're talking about. I'm not going to do a search right now. But that smaller Groove in the bottom of the Bore looks roughly half the 22mm. Getting a Face Groove tool that small 3.11" deep is not off the shelf stuff.

R

Rob
yes now that you mentioned it, its a long way in. Metric screwed me up.
They make tools I am sure one can also be modified.
I have some sandvik face grooving blade tools that we used in the past for long face grooves. they look like a cut off blade style use 5mm inserts came in about 6-7 inches long.( you had to hold on 3 inchs or somewhere close as thats how long the holder was for support. I just took a quick look and didnt see one laying close. I'll see if I can find a part number on them if I get time later.
It could have been iscar but I am almost certain its sandvik.
we used them for some weird ass seals way back when.
 
In the ideal world yeah, but its already been quoted, accepted and half machined :hole:



yeah sorry typo, 17-4 stainless, cutting fairly nice so far in fairness..



I'll check these out, main concern I have is the retract of the bar after each cut, not sure how to change that parameter :scratchchin:

Retract of the bar? parm? can you hand code it?,
 
Rob
they kinded look like this and in different lengths, Iscar has them also but there inserts is different from the ones I used.
1278.jpg
 
Iscar makes nice durable tools for grooving and parting. Definitely not cheap, but worth the money in the long run.

Yes they do, There face groovers on the round shank was one of the best ever made. There full rad inserts cut better than anything I have used.
Just replace the blade for the dia your going to face groove.
I wasnt ever sold on there cut off tools, Sandvik always worked better for us on that type. but sandvik was no match for iscars full rad face grooving inserts,
 
The slot ended up being roughed out on the mill and in regards to turning, somone else is now doing it thank the gods! 😁

We do have the iscar face grooving tools on the diamater shank but they don't make a left hand version for turning up to a boss the tool sweeps the wrong way, decent tools tho

I did make an offset boring bar holder for a small 16mm bar that would have done the internal reverse work but out of my hands now.. thankfully
 








 
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