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Defoamer ?

SND

Diamond
Joined
Jan 12, 2003
Location
Canada
Bad foaming issues again, just wondering what you guys are using for defoamer and if the type sold for carpet cleaning equipment and such is the same chemical composition or not? try to find something local to get this machine running and this seems about my only quick option right now. I thought I had heard on here before there's some regular store bought stuff that works just the same ?

thanks
 
I had a foaming issue a few years back. Turned out to be a clogged coolant filter/screen. When I cleaned it out, foaming subsided. Easy to check and fix, and might be worth a look before you purchase something.
 
Are you running high pressure coolant? what is your water like? Do you machine titanium? I would look long and hard for a cause before using a defoamer, and only as a last resort.
 
I had a foaming issue a few years back. Turned out to be a clogged coolant filter/screen. When I cleaned it out, foaming subsided. Easy to check and fix, and might be worth a look before you purchase something.

Same issue/solution here too. Once all the screens were cleared and the pump was re-primed, we were back in business. We have a bottle of Hangsterfer anti-foam additive, but never have had to use it.
 
Calcium acetate is the "stuff"..

Though I hear that tossing in some Tums or the Rolaids will work in a pinch..

But I agree with what most are saying.. If it wasn't doing it before, and its
doing it now, its a phsyical, hard part problem.... When I ran into massive
foaming issues, it was because the sump was FULL of cast iron chips and they were
intermittently causing the pump to suck air.
 
Filters, or clogged filters can cause foaming because you end up stripping some of the coolant, and in cases of high filtration, (5-15 microns) actually strips the hardness out of the water. Calcium acetate is the ticket for artificially hardening the water, which in turn reduces or can eliminate coolant foaming.
 
I was in the local farm supply place, and in the chemical section was "Defoamer".

And I know people run "foam markers" to make foam......:crazy:
 
Thanks guys, good to know. After more investigation, it turns out that it's not a coolant problem at all, which was part of my worry and now this might be even harder to solve. I do have some anti-foam coming but it likely still won't solve this issue. It's the nozzles of this machine and it has a 145psi pump. When it hits these nozzle it mixes with a lot of air and turns almost into whip cream... last night I made a bypass with a valve out of the pump to divert some of the flow back to the tank for regular turning, its working better this way. The return to the tank which is handling most of the flow isn't foaming at all. It's not a full solution yet, as next job going is drilling deep in 316 so I need full flow, then it has a bunch of turning/boring to do.

Anyhow, next thing will be to buy or make nozzles that don't foam it like this. I don't know, maybe I am supposed to add something to these? I never had nor ran cnc's lathe until buying this thing, so lots to learn. Also figured out I needed to make a bunch of covers for the turret so did that early this morning to keep the chips from going into certain holes when roughing and some positions are open.
ugh... maybe I'll get actual work done someday.
 
Why is there 145psi coolant at the nozzles? Usually 30psi or less is adequate. This sounds like the lathe is setup with high pressure coolant for through the tool cooling.

Do you have more than one coolant pump? Might have the hoses hooked up incorrectly.

Is there an inline throttling valve between the pump and the nozzles? Usually there is and this is adjusted to reduce the flow/pressure to a usable amount, 10-30psi.

You will never get a nozzle to not causing foaming at 145 psi.
 
I must respectfully disagree with the above post. With the new coolant technologies it is possible to do things you could not do just a couple of years ago. We have a 2014 Mori NZX with 1000 psi coolant that runs 24 house a day 5 days a week. We run Fuchs coolant. We utilize the 1000 psi in both our through the tool coolant holders, and the turning holders nozzles. Foaming has never been an issue.
 
Gobo, what do the nozzles look like on yours, do they have a fairly big opening? Which Fuchs product, I'm assuming full synthetic? I'm still using semi-synthetic for now as I have little trust in full synthetic for rust prevention. I had heard of lathes running 1000psi which is what really had me even more confused about if it was the machine or the coolant. Perhaps I'll eventually have to switch again, we'll see.

This machine has just 1 pump. I wanted the 145psi upgrade for the coolant through insert drills, and on those more PSI would definitely be even better, 145 is cutting it close. Got a coolant through parting blade too but haven't use that yet. I can definitely see now how having 2 pumps would make a lot of sense though, like mills with high pressure coolant usually do. I still have the original 65psi one that it came with.

I ended up modifying 4 of the nozzles after lunch today, soldered brass pipes onto them to mix less air than the 45° deflector they had. Thing is, its only about a 3/16" opening, pump is 3/4" hose, so its got some speed/flow/pressure coming out of there. But it has helped enough that I was able to keep it running, I closed the bypass since this job uses an insert drill going 3.70" deep in 316, it still foams a good bit but not overflowing. Some improvement anyway. For regular turning opening the bypass will make it better yet.
I'll likely throw an ounce of defoamer in there next week when it arrives anyway just to see how it does.

Anyhow, this thing has been a bit of a learning process so far, thankfully getting better with the programming too.
 
Well, Well, Well. Perhaps some conclusion to this. Lost my sh*t again a few days ago...

It wasn't the machine... switched coolant to FUCHS Ecocool 7830C last night. I used my regular tap water that comes out of the softener.
Running full blast today all day pretty much zero foam, maybe 1/8" at the bottom that disappears in seconds, unlike the 2-4" that wouldn't dissipate and sat there for 1hr+ and overflow like a bathtub. It was the first good happy day I've had in weeks, and their customer service/techs was great. I'll be looking into which of their coolant I switch the Mill over to next, maybe their 711C but I'll see what they recommend for my use first.

Big Thanks to the 2-3 guys on here that recommended Fuchs, this saved my butt and what little was left of my sanity.
 
Why is there 145psi coolant at the nozzles? Usually 30psi or less is adequate. This sounds like the lathe is setup with high pressure coolant for through the tool cooling.

Do you have more than one coolant pump? Might have the hoses hooked up incorrectly.

Is there an inline throttling valve between the pump and the nozzles? Usually there is and this is adjusted to reduce the flow/pressure to a usable amount, 10-30psi.

You will never get a nozzle to not causing foaming at 145 psi.

High pressure coolant is required for tools like Sandvik HP / Iscar Jetcut etc. They are marketed mainly for roughing of nickel alloys, but offer marked improvements across the board in my experience. Better tool life, better chip control. Extremely beneficial also when deep grooving, or boring up inside a small, deep bore with a long devibe bar.

Sandvik recommend 700psi for their HP tools. We have only about half of that on ours, but even with that it's a massive improvement over the usual gusher pump.

I would not buy another lathe without high pressure coolant.
 
High pressure coolant is required for tools like Sandvik HP / Iscar Jetcut etc. They are marketed mainly for roughing of nickel alloys, but offer marked improvements across the board in my experience. Better tool life, better chip control. Extremely beneficial also when deep grooving, or boring up inside a small, deep bore with a long devibe bar.

Sandvik recommend 700psi for their HP tools. We have only about half of that on ours, but even with that it's a massive improvement over the usual gusher pump.

I would not buy another lathe without high pressure coolant.

With every one of the machines we have recently purchased we bought the high pressure coolant option. Just as the above post mentions, with it you can tackle situations you could not with low pressure coolant. Coolant chillers also decrease foaming problems. As the coolant warms, the surface tension of the liquid increases, lengthening the time it takes for the bubbles to burst.
 








 
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