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    Default Dense working

    I've got a job on my desk that is 100,000 pieces of copper that needs drill and tap.

    What workholding have you used that is dense for this many parts? Requirements are drill and tap only. Part is .375 diameter.

    Looking at a table full of Harding's 5c dead length collet blocks that are hydraulic.

    Any other options? Paws system was $20,000+ for 24 stations.



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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    I've got a job on my desk that is 100,000 pieces of copper that needs drill and tap.

    What workholding have you used that is dense for this many parts? Requirements are drill and tap only. Part is .375 diameter.

    Looking at a table full of Harding's 5c dead length collet blocks that are hydraulic.

    Any other options? Paws system was $20,000+ for 24 stations.



    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    What is the travel limits of your machine and how many do you need to make right away? Is this a job you needs to be completed in a short time or are you making x amount of parts per month? How many parts do you want to run at one time? Based on jobs like this I would make two fixtures that run back to back, you send one pallet in to run and the other you change and get it ready to run after the other fixture.

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    Looking like I'll run this on the dm2 or HMC

    20,000 pieces per month

    I'd rather stick it on the Haas.

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    Collet blocks aren't all that dense, and are pretty expensive. If the TIR requirements are not severe, I would look at some sort of Pitbull or Versa Clamp fixture. Make 2 of them, and have the operator unload and reload while the machine is working.

    Even then, the machine will probably be quicker than the operator, but better then sitting there doing nothing while the machine is working ... unless the parts need some manual deburr step.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    That sounds like a job for a rotary transfer machine with a vibratory bowl feed system.

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    Concentricity is .01" so not too terrible.



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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Part is .375 diameter.
    What is the OAL?

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    Just over two inches

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    That sounds like a job for a rotary transfer machine with a vibratory bowl feed system.
    Seen this last month, looks clean:
    Used Horizontal Rotary Tapping Unit | HGR Industrial Surplus

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I'll have to stay away from stuff like this. Tolerance is .01 on concentricity and .01 on depth of threads.

    As a company we have been phasing out older machinery with the exception of grinding equipment.

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    Are they pre-cut blanks? If they are, I would say screw that unless you can make/buy a vibra-bowl or some type of conveyor system. Manhandling 20k small parts a month sounds like

    Wouldn't it be easier to bar feed these and part off in a lathe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    I'll have to stay away from stuff like this. Tolerance is .01 on concentricity and .01 on depth of threads.

    As a company we have been phasing out older machinery with the exception of grinding equipment.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Second thought, run away! Anyone that gives a tolerance on depth of thread of .010 is out there. Yes I know you can do it by measuring revolutions and math with a thread plug gage but... How are they going to measure it? I would find that out and question that thread depth tolerance. Is the number of start threads/lead controlled on thread plug gages? I don't know, might be worth investigating...

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post

    Any other options? Paws system was $20,000+ for 24 stations.



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    You could make some vee jaws that hold multiple pcs at a time per vise, then stack 3-4 vises on your table. Not the greatest solution but an inexpensive and viable one. Even have the moveable jaw be spring loaded to account for variations in stk diameter so all parts get tightened equally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Second thought, run away! Anyone that gives a tolerance on depth of thread of .010 is out there. Yes I know you can do it by measuring revolutions and math with a thread plug gage but... How are they going to measure it? I would find that out and question that thread depth tolerance. Is the number of start threads/lead controlled on thread plug gages? I don't know, might be worth investigating...

    I should clarify that the depth is the drilled hole max depth and min hole depth. not bad. no call out on thread depth just the depth of the hole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    You could make some vee jaws that hold multiple pcs at a time per vise, then stack 3-4 vises on your table. Not the greatest solution but an inexpensive and viable one. Even have the moveable jaw be spring loaded to account for variations in stk diameter so all parts get tightened equally.
    My only fear with V jaws is only having 3 points of contact and possibly mushing the copper. I think im going to be stuck with collets like a 5c dead stop pneumatic or hydraulic unit.

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    true it does sound sick haha but I look at it this way.... I'm not the one man handling the parts, thats what employees are for!

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    Like Mike said, you don't have a small lathe you can barfeed these on? Assuming they're not already cut of course.

    20k/month is 666/day = 43 seconds per part over an 8 hour shift.

    If they're as simple as you say then that seems perfectly feasible and operator intervention would be minimal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    Like Mike said, you don't have a small lathe you can barfeed these on? Assuming they're not already cut of course.

    20k/month is 666/day = 43 seconds per part over an 8 hour shift.

    If they're as simple as you say then that seems perfectly feasible and operator intervention would be minimal.

    Thankfully or not thankfully the parts are pre-machined and require a drill/tap operation prior to another operation we dont do. No way to bar feed them sadly. I have considered buying another fanucmate robot but I think a human can do it faster.

    Running 2 shifts per day so should be more than doable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    I've got a job on my desk that is 100,000 pieces of copper that needs drill and tap.

    What workholding have you used that is dense for this many parts? Requirements are drill and tap only. Part is .375 diameter.

    Looking at a table full of Harding's 5c dead length collet blocks that are hydraulic.

    Any other options? Paws system was $20,000+ for 24 stations.



    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    if there in the ends then mittee bite clamps on pallets. , operators can load pallets while machine is running.

    if the are side holes, you may get mittee bites to work considering the parts are 2" long.

    I ran the pallets in 3 vises, but dont rule out a 4th axis using the mittee bite clamps.
    I used the hex brass clamps. I'll see if I can find a pic later. worked faster than I ever thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Thankfully or not thankfully the parts are pre-machined and require a drill/tap operation prior to another operation we dont do. No way to bar feed them sadly. I have considered buying another fanucmate robot but I think a human can do it faster.

    Running 2 shifts per day so should be more than doable.
    I can't imagine that (drill&tap only) is very high dollar work. Especially if you are getting pre-machined blanks so material markup is out. Have you priced any pre-made stuff yet? A 5c indexer with 4 'spindles' is around $25-30k.

    Custom built using hydraulics, that will be engineering extensive if you really want to fill up a table.* Plus even if you used alum plate, it would be too heavy IMO to swap in and out of machine easily.

    * I've built fixtures in the past using these and a hydraulic unit.
    Swing Clamps – Threaded Cartridge, Single Acting, B1.891 (2 Series) | Carr Lane
    Those ^ are roughly $600/ea

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post


    My only fear with V jaws is only having 3 points of contact and possibly mushing the copper. I think im going to be stuck with collets like a 5c dead stop pneumatic or hydraulic unit.
    Only if one jaw has a vee and the other does not.
    Heck make both vee, or make one have a 3/8 dia cutout with the other a vee. Lots of ways to skin a cat.
    It will at least get you going while you get the 5C workholding all ready to go.


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