What's new
What's new

DMG Mori Seiki Celos Control

cncwhiz

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Location
Minden, Nevada
We are looking at a DMG Mori that has a "DMG Mori Seiki Celos Control" on it. We are a Fanuc shop. Does this control use standard g code? Does this machine have its own g and m codes or are they like the Fanuc codes? Is the dnc side of the control standard or unique to the control. We are an oem production shop and run the same parts. We don't need any conversational controls.

Thanks
 
We are looking at a DMG Mori that has a "DMG Mori Seiki Celos Control" on it. We are a Fanuc shop. Does this control use standard g code? Does this machine have its own g and m codes or are they like the Fanuc codes? Is the dnc side of the control standard or unique to the control. We are an oem production shop and run the same parts. We don't need any conversational controls.

Thanks

Celos is a pc-based (windows) front-end that runs infront of a Fanuc or Mitsubishi (more common) back-end. It would use mostly standard g-code, and even the mitsubishi back-end runs fairly standard "fanuc style" code. In either case, Mori is known to do a decent ammount of customization, so it's unlikely a program from a standard Fanuc lathe would transfer over and run perfectly without edits. Due to Celos being a front-end, there's likely no need for a traditional 'dnc' setup, the celos side of the control will have a standard harddrive and with it virtually unlimited capacity. It can drip feed into the control directly, effectively handling DNC automatically. There's some caveats to that, specifically in regard to multi-channel machines.
 
Yes, CELOS + MAPPS V uses standard G-code, more or less.

Unlike MAPPS IV, which had a few hundred KB in MEM and few hundred MB in DNC, there is no distinction in MAPPS V. Everything is stored on the HDD under "Program" with 6GB available.
 
Yes, CELOS + MAPPS V uses standard G-code, more or less.

Unlike MAPPS IV, which had a few hundred KB in MEM and few hundred MB in DNC, there is no distinction in MAPPS V. Everything is stored on the HDD under "Program" with 6GB available.

True, and this is what Ellison told us as well....

But there exists a weird Celos + Mapps IV hybrid, which still has the same 'few hundred KB' in mem. For multi-channel\multi-head machines, you're mostly stuck using that.
 
Touch screens kinda suck, whether that's because of millions of microscopic pieces of metal in our fingers or not, I dunno, but it's a little more than is needed. It's not a Fansuc, but it does run the same G code as a Fansuc
 
Our Mapps IV controller has a pretty big storage area in the "user area" storage side. I think it's something like a Gig, but I'll have to report back in the morning. I can save Big surfacing paths there from a USB and run the program(not from the USB).
 
Touch screens kinda suck, whether that's because of millions of microscopic pieces of metal in our fingers or not, I dunno, but it's a little more than is needed. It's not a Fansuc, but it does run the same G code as a Fansuc

Why make a statement like that when you have NFI?

Mitsubishi, Siemens and Fanuc are all available with CELOS front-end.
 
Touch screens kinda suck, whether that's because of millions of microscopic pieces of metal in our fingers or not, I dunno,......

Not sure the context of this statement. Operationally, I find it to be like anything with a menu structure. Once one learns which screens have what functions then it's easy to navigate a touch screen. If it is from a reliability standpoint, The place I retired from had ~10 touch screen equipped machines that had never needed service. The touch screen on my home shop CNC is ~21 years old now and has never been worked on, replaced or anything gone wrong with it. That being said I try to not touch it with coolant dripping off my fingers, though often kind of wet. Also I just touch it gently instead of "banging" on it.

Only "glitch" is that the backlight on it does not turn on if the shop gets below ~40F. Not a common environment for a CNC so no problem IMO.
 
Once one learns which screens have what functions then it's easy to navigate a touch screen....


Perhaps where you are from.

Where I am from, the equipment featuring the easy to navigate Touch Screen happens to be a Wire EDM.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, go and try to use one for a few days and please report back what you think of them.

Sidenote: Plain water is a hell of a lot easier to wipe off your hands to get them somewhat dry than machine coolant.
In my case, I've put up with a touch screen on the WEDM for just over one week before getting a real keyboard and mouse from Best Buy.
As a result, I KNOW that any milling or turning center in my future will either come with, or have a factory-supplied real tactile keyboard/button panel free of charge.

Period, end of story.
 
Not sure the context of this statement. Operationally, I find it to be like anything with a menu structure. Once one learns which screens have what functions then it's easy to navigate a touch screen.

I think the big gripe he's on about is that touch screens and wet hands are generally a NO GO.

They work just enough to frustrate the ever living shit out of you. The Robodrill has no touch screen, but whenever I grab my iPhone and try to use it with coolant on my fingers, it's a pain in the ass. That Qualichem doesn't exactly wipe off the fingers very easily.

I'm going to guess the variance in people's opinions on CNC control touch screens has to do with hardware selection on the part of the manufacturer (a few different touch screen technologies out there), as well as how the UI team designs and calibrates the system - big, easy, touch targets across the UI might work just fine with the noise caused by wet fingers in the system.... but try to do fine point selection (like on an iPhone) and it is impossible.
 
Our Mapps IV controller has a pretty big storage area in the "user area" storage side. I think it's something like a Gig, but I'll have to report back in the morning. I can save Big surfacing paths there from a USB and run the program(not from the USB).

I just checked, the Internal card storage device holds 1.5 GIG.
 
Perhaps where you are from.

Where I am from, the equipment featuring the easy to navigate Touch Screen happens to be a Wire EDM.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, go and try to use one for a few days and please report back what you think of them.

The shop I retired from had a few Mits EDMs (wire and sinker) with touch screens. I was in maintenance, so did not have operational experience, but the times I needed to do things with them for maintenance purposes there was no difficulty.

I think the big gripe he's on about is that touch screens and wet hands are generally a NO GO.

They work just enough to frustrate the ever living shit out of you. The Robodrill has no touch screen, but whenever I grab my iPhone and try to use it with coolant on my fingers, it's a pain in the ass. That Qualichem doesn't exactly wipe off the fingers very easily.

I'm going to guess the variance in people's opinions on CNC control touch screens has to do with hardware selection on the part of the manufacturer (a few different touch screen technologies out there), as well as how the UI team designs and calibrates the system - big, easy, touch targets across the UI might work just fine with the noise caused by wet fingers in the system.... but try to do fine point selection (like on an iPhone) and it is impossible.

Probably true. The Mits touchscreen on my Mori is insensitive to coolant as far as I can tell. The "buttons" work fine wet or dry and are large enough and separated that there is no issue with overlapping another. I try to not touch it dripping because I do not trust the 20+ year old gasket around the screen and bezel to keep coolant from crawling under it and damaging something.

The Fanuc touchscreens I have been around come with a stylus for "finer" tasks.
 
I was in maintenance, so did not have operational experience, but the times I needed to do things with them for maintenance purposes there was no difficulty.

Well, try to remove a slug and then use the touch screen to restart the operation without wiping your hands first.

The Fanuc touchscreens I have been around come with a stylus for "finer" tasks.

I already have a stylus always handy thank you very much.
In fact, I have 10 of them, and have used each and every single one to push real buttons when needed.
 
We have one machine with Mapps IV, and one with Celos. Both have Fanuc in the cabinet, Both are DMG/Mori


Personally, after running both I still like MappsIV better. It has actual buttons that you can actually press and has feel to it. I find myself making more errors punching stuff in in Celos, where you rely on beeps for feedback.

Since it's Fanuc in the cabinet, it runs like the rest of the machines in the shop. Has Marco-B, with a normal set of Variables that'd you get with anything Fanuc. Posts are different for mastercam, and took a bit to get right. (They're mills, not lathes)


I've never had a problem with the touchscreen not working due to dirty hands/gloves, but I tend to keep clean. I will say I've had less of a problem when Mitsu was in the Cabinet, for whatever reason things like drive fans going out is more common in Fanuc.
 
Very possible as gkoenig said in post 10 above, a lot has to do with the hardware chosen and how the builders UI uses the touchscreen. A post in another current thread...

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...onage-designs-324046-post2822065/#post2822065

has a user with a wire EDM and touchscreen who apparently is quite happy with it.

OK, I think I need to clarify...

I do love the UI on my edm ( Makino ) as well, that is not my issue.
It is the fact that the touch screen usage-only can be a wicked bitch to work with.

Sometimes it's useful ( like zooming in and out on the graphics screen ), but for normal usage and setting up, typing and all else,
there is no substitute for a real keyboard and mouse.
It does have a true pendant with real buttons for all the essentials ( Run, Stop, Reset, Thread, jog etc ), in fact those you can ONLY do on the pendant, no equivalent
on the touchscreen, but anything else is on the touchscreen, thankfully completely usable with a mouse and kb.
 
Now that we have had this machine in our shop, I hate every ounce of this machine. I just crashed the tool setter for the second time. The first time was my fault as that I hit in in the x axis and blew it off the post. This morning I was setting it up and gave it a 325 tool setter command. It moved into position, came in in Z and kept going and bent the cylinder. They did a lousy job of macro. The macros are case sensitive and the argue statements don't work the same as fanuc macro B. This is a celos Mitsubishi control. The coolant system plugs up constantly. I had a Z crash due to a macro not working like it did on my Daywoo machines. It roached the spindle. I have been running and programming cnc machines for 40 years and never had problems like I am having on this machine. I am at the end of my rope. I have been working at this company for 25 years but this machine might make that come to and end
 
Now that we have had this machine in our shop, I hate every ounce of this machine. I just crashed the tool setter for the second time. The first time was my fault as that I hit in in the x axis and blew it off the post. This morning I was setting it up and gave it a 325 tool setter command. It moved into position, came in in Z and kept going and bent the cylinder. They did a lousy job of macro. The macros are case sensitive and the argue statements don't work the same as fanuc macro B. This is a celos Mitsubishi control. The coolant system plugs up constantly. I had a Z crash due to a macro not working like it did on my Daywoo machines. It roached the spindle. I have been running and programming cnc machines for 40 years and never had problems like I am having on this machine. I am at the end of my rope. I have been working at this company for 25 years but this machine might make that come to and end
We have Celos controls on 6 machines. I think they are great. It sounds like all of your problems are caused by expecting the Celos to act the same as the machines you have ran in the past. Dangerous assumption, as is evident.
 
Now that we have had this machine in our shop, I hate every ounce of this machine. I just crashed the tool setter for the second time. The first time was my fault as that I hit in in the x axis and blew it off the post. This morning I was setting it up and gave it a 325 tool setter command. It moved into position, came in in Z and kept going and bent the cylinder. They did a lousy job of macro. The macros are case sensitive and the argue statements don't work the same as fanuc macro B. This is a celos Mitsubishi control. The coolant system plugs up constantly. I had a Z crash due to a macro not working like it did on my Daywoo machines. It roached the spindle. I have been running and programming cnc machines for 40 years and never had problems like I am having on this machine. I am at the end of my rope. I have been working at this company for 25 years but this machine might make that come to and end

Well thanks for the feedback, what machine did you end up with? Sorry to hear about the heartache.

Charles
 








 
Back
Top