Do machinists now only machine or do they finish the parts they machine? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    ...air drills or air grinders or pedestal drills on most machines to debur while the machines run
    ...loads the machine then sits on a stool reading a newspaper or whatever until it is time to load it again
    A world of difference between those two approaches. In the second there are probably shop stewards preventing the brotherhood from being overworked. In the first the proceeds are probably going on your 1040...

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    Basically what we are talking about is the concept of Multi-tasking, it isn't just in Machine shops. Most people are capable of minor M-Ting. Sometimes the handwork involved requires a special eye for it. Graining is a talent and a PITA, but I suck at it, I end up with spherical Flats and Toolmarks visible, where I know people who are great at it. Maybe it should be in the new hire paper work, just as simple as stating that we require someone who can do minor Muti-tasking.

    OTOH, there are times when an Operation requires all the Operators attention, this Operator is learning to be a Machinist, and I don't think they are obligated to do poor handwork while the Machine is running, because every 8 minutes there is 15 second lull. Reading the newspaper while the Machine is running is fine---for $12-14.00 hr. but you are not being a Machinist IMO, your being an Operator. Most Machinists that I know don't like people looking, let alone touching their parts until they say it's okay, or until the parts are ready for final in QC. And most Machinists that I know see the big picture, and how every contribution is just that.

    R

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  4. #23
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    Some machinists won't sweep and clean the area at the end of the shift as it is "below" them as a low skilled job.
    I am sure they would also feel deburr should be handled by lower level people even if they have the free time to do it.
    Bob

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    I had another thought, playing Devil's Advocate. But people who do much less and make much more, don't vacuum their own office, or clean the John, just a thought.

    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    I had another thought, playing Devil's Advocate. But people who do much less and make much more, don't vacuum their own office, or clean the John, just a thought.

    R
    Both of which I have seen. Is this a very clear sign of something?
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Some machinists won't sweep and clean the area at the end of the shift as it is "below" them as a low skilled job.
    I am sure they would also feel deburr should be handled by lower level people even if they have the free time to do it.
    Bob

    Don't know about machinists, but I will every day put a decent deburr guy way above an operator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    Reading the newspaper while the Machine is running is fine---
    If I have free time I'm usually on PM...

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    We've done at different ways, just depending on the part. A lot are debured in the machine, but you still will have that one burr that can't be reached or a hole full of chips. We have a debur bench but have never had a "professional" debur guy. The machinist in charge of making the part is in charge of any final stages of it's manufacturing. Even if he delegates it to a high-school kid, it's still his job to make sure it's done right so nothing is missed and the part doesn't get ruined.

    We do so much 1-off and short run parts that often it becomes a question of "Do we spend 3 more hours trying to perfect a program so it takes 1 extra minute of run time and people don't have to touch the part later," or "Run the part with the current program, then manually debur the part which adds 2 minutes to the part, and we are off to the next job." Efficiency encompasses more than just spindle time.

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    I have someone else do all the work

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    Let me get this straight, you machine parts that need extra work to make them to the print? Shouldn't a 'hot shot' machinist mill or turn a part without needing secondary operations?
    Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny VanVoorn View Post
    Let me get this straight, you machine parts that need extra work to make them to the print? Shouldn't a 'hot shot' machinist mill or turn a part without needing secondary operations?
    Dan
    It depends, if you are talking about second operations, or deburring? A Machinist has the knowledge, I think the topic is a should/shouldn't type thing.

    R

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    Quote Originally Posted by kustomizer View Post
    We chamfer or radius anywhere we can, often we have additional operations that can be done as the machine runs such as vibratory polishing, buffing wheel polishing, graining etc. If possible I like to put finished parts in a box ready to ship. This place I was talking about the "machinist" loads the machine then sits on a stool reading a newspaper or whatever until it is time to load it again.
    That sounds like a Municipal Shop, a Big Shop and strong Union Shops I have been to. Last one had machinist on stool with leg crossed reading a newspaper as a 20" lathe was taking a slow cut on a 8" OD Bronze bushing. Machine had auto stops...I know as I had same one back at my place. Behind his machine were at least 5 more machines sitting idle. Next to the machine were two pallets of raw stock. To his right a dozen or so parts done.
    I walked through that shop on my way to a meeting...two hour meeting. When we left guy was clipping his nails or something...both piles looked about the same.
    Me, I'd have however many machines I could time right running. Sitting wasting time is boring as hell.

    Anyway...I have some gents that just want to machine and they have viewpoints on what they consider machining...deburing is often underneath them. That is a view we need to work on as a half machined part is as good as a non- machined part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny VanVoorn View Post
    Let me get this straight, you machine parts that need extra work to make them to the print? Shouldn't a 'hot shot' machinist mill or turn a part without needing secondary operations?
    Dan
    It's really up to the hot shot programmer. There are sometimes some quite simple features that are difficult to chamfer, such as when a chamfer on a lower plateau dead ends against a shoulder wall. Then you've got a chamfer tool that can't get in closer than its own radius, so there is a residual amount of sharp edge left unmachined. But, you can easily hit it with the corner of a sanding belt during manual manipulation of the piece.

    I've had parts that I've evolved towards more machine filleting over time as I've learned how difficult and time consuming it is to do a good job with hand tools. But the initial run is usually done with more deburring to be done than is optimal. I get really pissed when I cut myself on a burr, so I try to make my parts safe to handle by someone else who might not be paying careful attention.

  19. #34
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    Yep, the finger and finger nail about as good as anything to tell when a part is ready.

    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny VanVoorn View Post
    Let me get this straight, you machine parts that need extra work to make them to the print? Shouldn't a 'hot shot' machinist mill or turn a part without needing secondary operations?
    Dan
    I barfeed this knobs inside with a threaded hole to screw on a spud in a second lathe where I turn the od with a diamond insert leaving a very fine finish, I then put it in a VMC to put a small flat and a 3/8-24 thread for the shift lever. I first pick up the last part to drop from the first lathe, walk it to the second lathe where I remove the last knob and thread on the new one and push the green button. I take the knob from the second lathe and walk it to a VMC where I remove the finished part and install the new one and push that green button. I then screw the finished part on a dewalt cordless drill and spin it up against a buffing wheel with red compound then another wheel with white buffing compound. It is now a part ready to ship. I set it in an egg flat, walk back to the first lathe and wait about 30 sec for the next part to roll into the bucket and start all over, the entire circut takes about 2.5 mins.

    img_4328.jpg

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    img_4424.jpg

    img_4432.jpg

    When I make these (7075 ) they are machined 90% in the back stations of a trio of doublelock vises and buzz of the exrta material from the backside in the front stations. I remove a pair every 16 mins but they need a brushed finish so I start another set, take the last ones over to a vaccuum bench with spinning arbors where I put the brushed finish on them. I then walk them over to a Hardinge chucker where I put a dab of locktight in a threaded hole and screw in the pivot, put on an Oring a dab of grease and put them together into a pair of pliers.
    Many times there are things one can do to finish the parts outside of the machine, even if you are a "Hot Shot Programmer".

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    These come out of the machine in good shape but need to go through 2 vibratory machines to get the smooth satin type finish required, I put them in the cuarses vibratory machine for about 1/2 hour every 10 parts I make and then transfer them to one loaded with ceramic balls for the final finish, this takes another 1/2 hour, but it can all be done while the machine makes them.

    img_4433.jpg

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    A couple(+,-) million dollars worth of robots and a hot shot programmer should take care of all the secondary operations. With a "tiny" decrease in quality those could be made in China from die castings.

    With all that walking from machine to machine you must be skinny as a bean pole.

    Tom

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    some machines its best if operator is there paying attention to it. if you never had malfunctions or part not correct startup size or a fixture setup problem, or sudden tool failures good for you.
    .
    i have seen machines down for months for repairs cause nobody paying attention usually cause operator doing something else. i often add M1 to problem areas in program and if i am not at cnc control it will just stop on M1 and wait for me to come back to control.
    .
    machine malfunctions do happen and are hard to predict. even a simple drilling op if drill bit breaks and nobody there to even notice then tap or reamer especially if big tends to do serious damage if hole aint there on part. some programs even got M1 just to ask after drilling to look at drill bit and see if its not broken
    .
    usually i stop cnc if i am doing a lot of deburring or setting up another part fixture and cannot pay attention to cnc. if nothing else a part thats $1000 to $10,000 its best to stop cnc most times

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    A couple(+,-) million dollars worth of robots and a hot shot programmer should take care of all the secondary operations. With a "tiny" decrease in quality those could be made in China from die castings.

    With all that walking from machine to machine you must be skinny as a bean pole.

    Tom
    The machines are'nt that many miles apart


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