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  1. #1
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    Default Do you hate your Renishaw Tool Probe?

    We used to but are now back on good terms again. Dang thing was always in the way and re-calibration is a PITA an at least and hour of downtime. I solved this problem by designing a system to de-mount and re-mount a tool probe in seconds with no tools and no recalibration. We made two types, one mounts in t-slots mounts and the other mounts to a fixed base. We had other machine shops wanting these so we now have them for sale. Thought you folks might find it useful. See link below for information on how it works.

    Installation Instructions for Exact Engineering Quick Mount for Renishaw OTS Tool Probe - YouTube

    Renishaw OTS Probe Removeable Mounting System - YouTube

    Repeatability Test of Exact Engineerings Quick Mount for Renishaw OTS Tool Probe - YouTube

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    I think this is a great idea and would sell very well. I work for Doosan Machine Tools and we get frequent requests for ways to get the tool setter off of the table. Do you have T-Nuts for inch and metric tables?

    Paul

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    Ultra precision instrument held in place by magnets on machines full of metal chips, What could possibly go wrong? The concept is a good idea but the application leaves too many variables to go wrong.

    The hour of downtime to put the probe on, indicate and calibrate is a shocker.

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    Hi Paul,

    We have kinematic base plates that for 80mm and 100mm T-slot spacing. We have T-nuts for HAAS and Hurco. One of them they may fit Doosan. If you send me the T-slot dimensions we can see if one of them will work. Beauty about kinematic mounts is nothing needs to be precision as they are exactly constrained. Regardless, if the qtys/demand is there we can certainly make ones that fit Doosan as well.

    Mechanical Engineering Company | Exact Engineering for my contact info.

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    Thank you for your input, your concerns are certainly valid and i had similar ones early one. Care must be taken to make sure the the kinematic interfaces are free from debris before mounting but other than that no skills are required as it is self nesting. We have been running both versions for over 3 years with no issues. Full rapids at 1000ipm, in fact we often will leave the probe installed on the base if its not in the way. We have sold dozens of these over the last year and a half so far nothing nothing but positive feedback. I have considered adding a "safety restraint" feature in the event the probe gets de-coupled from the base but we have not seen this need as of yet.

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    Spam here much ?

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    Honestly, the cries of spam are more spammy than the purported spam itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kinematic View Post
    We used to but are now back on good terms again. Dang thing was always in the way and re-calibration is a PITA an at least and hour of downtime. I solved this problem by designing a system to de-mount and re-mount a tool probe in seconds with no tools and no recalibration. We made two types, one mounts in t-slots mounts and the other mounts to a fixed base. We had other machine shops wanting these so we now have them for sale. Thought you folks might find it useful. See link below for information on how it works.

    Installation Instructions for Exact Engineering Quick Mount for Renishaw OTS Tool Probe - YouTube

    Renishaw OTS Probe Removeable Mounting System - YouTube

    Repeatability Test of Exact Engineerings Quick Mount for Renishaw OTS Tool Probe - YouTube
    Looks like the way Zeiss mounts CMM probes.

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    I agree with g-coder about the magnets...

    No magnets for chips to get stuck on with this one. R52-HTS - 5th Axis Been working great for me.

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    most likely, this is whats known as a 3 vee, (3 ball) kinematic mount there are others such as a cone, vee, flat (3 ball) that effectively does the same thing, and that is exactly constrain a body in 6 dofs. i certainly did not invent the kinematic mount but have been engineering with them for 20 years. its amazing that with simple precision parts, 3 bearing balls and 6 dowel pins you can design a mount that can repeat to microns or less!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 70olds View Post
    Looks like the way Zeiss mounts CMM probes.
    It's the way Renishaw probes touch trigger probes work, it's also the way renishaw mount TP2 probe modules, and a bunch of other things too. Renishaw even call it the "Kinematic" connection, have done since they invented sometime in the 1970's.

    OP making out like he came up with this by himself, let alone calling it Kinematic, is pretty scammy.

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    Looks like it could have uses in shops that only use their probe occasionally. I leave mine in place and do tool breakage detection for lights-out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    It's the way Renishaw probes touch trigger probes work, it's also the way renishaw mount TP2 probe modules, and a bunch of other things too. Renishaw even call it the "Kinematic" connection, have done since they invented sometime in the 1970's.

    OP making out like he came up with this by himself, let alone calling it Kinematic, is pretty scammy.
    He flat out says above that he didn't invent the kinematic mount. Neither did Renishaw - James Maxwell and Lord Kelvin did in the 1800's. Renishaw adapted it to work as a CNC probe using a circuit-break integrated mechanism, but even that is far outside of patent now.

    And it's called a kinematic mount... no different than a guy selling car tires calling himself "car tire guy", I don't see anything scammy in that.

    Honestly, this is an interesting tool, we don't need to be running off people who have something legit to offer and are participating.

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    I *briefly* watched a couple snippets of the video.... who takes their probe off and on enough for this to be practical? I dunno, maybe some do, but seems very very "niche" market wise....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT Mike View Post
    He flat out says above that he didn't invent the kinematic mount. Neither did Renishaw - James Maxwell and Lord Kelvin did in the 1800's. Renishaw adapted it to work as a CNC probe using a circuit-break integrated mechanism, but even that is far outside of patent now.

    And it's called a kinematic mount... no different than a guy selling car tires calling himself "car tire guy", I don't see anything scammy in that.

    Honestly, this is an interesting tool, we don't need to be running off people who have something legit to offer and are participating.
    Fair enough, I stand corrected!

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    I feel like a double sided floating probe would solve the mount/dismount issue. Just clip it on to the tool with spring loaded jaws and as the the z axis lowers the bottom of the floating sensor will contact the table or fixture or whatever and then the top would come in contact with the tool and you know your height with an exact offset.

    Not a machinist though, just a sheet metal guy.

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    Although I certainly believe, that Tool Setter's home is on machine, sometimes customer asked for mount/remove option. In such case the repeatability issue must be elaborated. Both Renishaw and Marposs supply removable measuring arms (HPRA and MIDA SET respectively) initially developed for use in lathes. Both based on kinematic stage principle, both using mechanical clamping, and both assuring 5 micron (0.0002 inch) position repeatability for small size arms. I doubt if this number is good enough for machining center tool setting.
    But still sometimes frequent TS mount/remove action must be done, and I've been asked to provide solution. Kinematic stage principle is just obvious, method of clamping the probe carrier to table mounted base had to be examined. Rare earth magnets seemed to be ideal solution, and results on trial bench where good. Unfortunately in real live, in metal chips contaminated environment, it completely failed. No way to get rid of this nasty chips. Mechanical clamping worked OK, but it was quite difficult to turn the clamping handle on remotely (far left corner of the table) mounted tool setter base. Finally I came with vacuum based solution (bore in the center of the base, connected to vacuum pipe, slightly smaller boss in the center of the probe carrier). Works smoothly. The lack of dedicated vacuum pump can be simply solved by small venturi unit, which uses shop pressurized air supply.

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    I mounted a customer's tool setter on a base, that was about 3" high and just inside the machine's travels. Never an issue. But this seems pretty cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kinematic View Post
    We used to but are now back on good terms again. Dang thing was always in the way and re-calibration is a PITA an at least and hour of downtime. I solved this problem by designing a system to de-mount and re-mount a tool probe in seconds with no tools and no recalibration. We made two types, one mounts in t-slots mounts and the other mounts to a fixed base. We had other machine shops wanting these so we now have them for sale. Thought you folks might find it useful. See link below for information on how it works.

    Installation Instructions for Exact Engineering Quick Mount for Renishaw OTS Tool Probe - YouTube

    Renishaw OTS Probe Removeable Mounting System - YouTube

    Repeatability Test of Exact Engineerings Quick Mount for Renishaw OTS Tool Probe - YouTube
    Yeah I love mine.
    But there it is..in the way.
    I am not all in love with a QC, but thought of doing one too.
    In the Fadal I located at the extreme + XY corner with just enough travel to work.
    On the Haas TM I mounted it on a chunk of 2 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch angle and mounted it off the back of the table, again at + XY which completely freed up the table, however ot can still be in the way for larger parts.
    Overall the tool-setter and Probe were the biggest time-savers I can think of offhand.. I love them.
    Mark

  24. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinematic View Post
    Hi Paul,

    We have kinematic base plates that for 80mm and 100mm T-slot spacing. We have T-nuts for HAAS and Hurco. One of them they may fit Doosan. If you send me the T-slot dimensions we can see if one of them will work. Beauty about kinematic mounts is nothing needs to be precision as they are exactly constrained. Regardless, if the qtys/demand is there we can certainly make ones that fit Doosan as well.

    Mechanical Engineering Company | Exact Engineering for my contact info.

    Most of our top selling VMC's are 125MM between centers.

    Paul


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