Does adding a professionally done Proto Trak retrofit add much value to a machine?

Hey all,
There is a guy close to us that is asking us to help with a valuation on his machines. He is thinking about selling his whole business off and he came to the right guys for pricing on his manual machines but he has 3 mills that I need a bit of help with. All 3 have been professionally retrofitted with prototrak systems, 2 axis X and Y with everything in working condition.

What extra value, if any, should be added on to it. So let's say the mill is worth 40 breadcrumbs if it didn't have the control. And that a similar machine with a 3 axis DRO is worth about 50 breadcrumbs (sorry about the stupid denominations but direct currency conversions might be a problem).

The question is what is its value to you? If you can use cnc to your advantage, then it will help.

Manual mills are tiresome to use for anything of complexity or great accuracy. Even positioning a DRO system accurately is still slow to do manually. I believe the Prototraks are conversational? That should make hole patterns convenient to do.

It might also be convenient to cut keyways with if you have many to cut in an identical setup. Small lot 'mass production' will improve in quality, accuracy and time savings.

Unfortunately, the guy who had the retrofits done should have reaped the benefits of having them done, and recouped his outlay already. I don't think there are many people who would mentally add on 20k breadcrumbs just for the naked value of the retro. But this depends on your exact situation at the moment: if it is just what you need, then great, pay a premium if the retro is reliable.

prototraks are popular with manual machinist just starting or learning cnc. obviously crashing a 2 axis machine with slow rapids is extremely rare. and cause of the lower hp motor the cutting forces are not particularly high
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if you know how to use the easy to learn control you can do a lot with it but obviously if machine has 3hp or less you are more limited by the low hp

I have BP style knee mill with a 2 axis SMI package, an SM. As noted, the worth is what you are willing to pay for. In my case, the addition of the CNC package easily doubled or even tripled the value as it allowed me to perform accurately and on a consistent basis parts I wouldn't have though about doing. Great for limited production.

prototrak programming and operating manual is usually about 100 pages
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i have seen many bigger cnc with 1000-3000 pages of manuals.
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for the guy who cannot bother to read the manual to record a tv program or use all the features of a tv or computer cause its complicated. often the simpler to learn and use machine is favored. most of time you can do the prototrak programming tutorials in 1 to 2 hours.
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on a big cnc with 3000 pages of manuals you could be needing years to go through all the training to learn even 50% of what it is capable off
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a prototrak you can use as a manual machine with a dro and not need to program anything. you can manually turn knobs and feel resistance machining or go in manual then to cnc mode and back to manual as often as you want

I believe that value would be very much dependent on what Proto-trak retrofit it has, what series head, and what the HP rating is. On top of the regular manual mill considerations, Backlash( and is it a ball-screw or acme), dovetail condition, spindle condition, does the one-shot lubrication system work etc..

Proto-trak (I believe both Proto-traks before the AGE series were available with or without a ballscrew upgrade)
Proto-trak Plus
Proto-trak AGE 2
Proto-trak AGE 3

Most prototraks can take gcode as well...for what it's worth

I'd look for comparable machines on ebay and craigslist.

As I remember, the really old ProtoTrak machines were point to point only, no interpolation.

I doubt the CNC control adds any value. It might actually make them worth less.

Thanks for the replies guys,
so the thing is he is looking at selling all his machinery off or his business as a whole. His wife passed away and I think he wants to sell up because he has enough for retirement and does not need the extra headaches of running a business at this point. It is a successful small shop that specialises in making tooling, as in boring bars and milling cutters as specials. Won't get too much into it but he also makes for a big brand over here when they need specials.

He has undoubtedly made his money from them, he bought a teach style cnc lathe recently that we helped a bit with. I went around with him looking at options and giving him advice.

They can interpolate, all ball screws, not sure on the series control though. Mainly used for insert pocket milling to get them all the same. Machine iron in good condition as all his machines are. His real genius is in his fixtures, I do some turning for him on certain parts hence the reason why he was looking at doing it in house with his lathe buy.

We MIGHT buy some machines from him or help him to sell. We are in the machine tool sales game. The reason I asked for a rough guess is because I only have full machining centres and have never shopped for a retro style machine. I want him to be able to get a decent amount of money for them (like all the manual grinders, saws,mills, measuring equipment etc etc that we can price for him no problem as per my OP) and the buyer ,whoever it may be, to get a decent deal at the same time.

The problem with looking at sites that are not over here is that prices would differ too much. I read some posts on here and if I directly convert currency I sometimes think "DAMN THEY GET RIPPED OFF OVER THERE" or on others "WISH IT WAS SO CHEAP OVER HERE". It is the reason for my breadcrumbs comparison.... would it be better if we used hotdogs?

Like I said, the machines with the prototrak as manual mills would fetch around 40-45 breadcrumbs /hotdogs.

early prototrak like
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prototrak plus
prototrak mx2
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are 2 axis control and i often got it to accept gcode but it

1) does not see Z

2) if X and Y does not change it will give error so CAM program i used spiral lead in and lead out. it doesnt see Z change but sees X and Y change or arc

3) you have to edit for go button push so at pause you adjust Z then press go

4) got a about 250 line program limit. long programs need to be broken into
separate program. normally program not over 200 lines if CAM done correctly
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almost always i uploaded Fanuc gcode and then download what it translated it too (it translated to SWI gcode they often have separate manual explaining SWI gcodes) and did minor edits. many a time i created a engraving program, uploaded, downloaded, did minor edits, uploaded again. did engraving and was done and walked
away from mill in about 1/2 hour. not like going to write or engrave a book.
usually just a name plate thing of one or 2 words. i used to use a sharpie marker
holder in mill and write on part engraving. nothing worse than spelling error
found after you engraved part.
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just saying prototrak can easily mill arcs, chamfers etc that would be difficult
if not impossible to do on manual mill. some machinist program mostly at the
control conversationally and get by every day making hundreds of programs a year
with no problems. literally if it takes much over 30 seconds to program a simple
op you got problems. most programs of say 6 ops might take maybe 5 minutes of
programming