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Doosan DNM4000?

Rick_H

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Location
uk - midlands
Hi all, there are a world of opinions about the usual options like the Speedio for small machines / aluminium work but I can’t find much real world info about the DNM4000 from doosan.

We need a new machine to run with a 4th axis tombstone, two aluminium parts each side (8 total, approx 120mm square, 20mm tall) with some 12mm roughing / outside profile (15mm deep) some 12mm 6x dia drilling and approx 15 m4 tapped holes a side with a few other features - machine will only ever run aluminium or this specific job.

Parts should run for 1.5-2hrs unattended, we are not chasing every micro second but want something that won’t hang about - all programmed by CAM and small batch production, jobs not being changed daily.

The Speedo is likely out right now (so please no ‘get a Speedio comments ;-) ), the machines in the ballpark are the 10k Robodrill, the Hurco VMX30Di -
(Direct 15k spindle) and the Doosan DNM4000 which is the machine I would like a little more info about (may look at Haas DM but less keen so far)

The Doosan comes with TSC as standard and a 12k DD spindle, BT40 - we have good local support for all 3, doosan probably the best.

Thanks.
 
Hi all, there are a world of opinions about the usual options like the Speedio for small machines / aluminium work but I can’t find much real world info about the DNM4000 from doosan.

We need a new machine to run with a 4th axis tombstone, two aluminium parts each side (8 total, approx 120mm square, 20mm tall) with some 12mm roughing / outside profile (15mm deep) some 12mm 6x dia drilling and approx 15 m4 tapped holes a side with a few other features - machine will only ever run aluminium or this specific job.

Parts should run for 1.5-2hrs unattended, we are not chasing every micro second but want something that won’t hang about - all programmed by CAM and small batch production, jobs not being changed daily.

The Speedo is likely out right now (so please no ‘get a Speedio comments ;-) ), the machines in the ballpark are the 10k Robodrill, the Hurco VMX30Di -
(Direct 15k spindle) and the Doosan DNM4000 which is the machine I would like a little more info about (may look at Haas DM but less keen so far)

The Doosan comes with TSC as standard and a 12k DD spindle, BT40 - we have good local support for all 3, doosan probably the best.

Thanks.

we're looking into DNM5000 ourselves, from the research we've done, they should be a very solid machine.
 
we're looking into DNM5000 ourselves, from the research we've done, they should be a very solid machine.

My reservations are seeing people using them to cut hard materials etc when we will only cut aluminium and have some small drill / tap work to do - we don’t want to lose huge chunks of time vs something like a Robodrill etc (the 10k version, the 24k spindle isn’t an option)
 
My reservations are seeing people using them to cut hard materials etc when we will only cut aluminium and have some small drill / tap work to do - we don’t want to lose huge chunks of time vs something like a Robodrill etc (the 10k version, the 24k spindle isn’t an option)

on paper they're no slouch speed wise... but i havent seen one cut in person yet
 
I had a DNM5700 and the machine its self was nice but the support from the local dealer "ELLISON" was really bad ,,, After they removed the Doosan I replaced it with a VF2ss and like it way better for running alum parts than the Doosan ,,, when I needed to ad more spindles I ordered a DM2 and well its fast and does a good job I would not buy a second one do to the small door opening, If and when I order more spindles for aluminum parts it well be vf2ss mills or a horizontal ,

one HUGE thing to look at it chips , I only looked at making the aluminum parts in the beginning and soon found out I also really needed to look at the chips I was to be making also ,,, that is one big upside to the Haas augers over the chip conveyers most other machines use ,, well I have to clean out the return screen at the back on the haas machines every few hours , I don`t have to pull the conveyers and clean out the tank, I can run for MONTHS at a time with just simply dumping the back screen ,
 
I was hoping the 4000 would be a considerable step up in terms of speed in Alu over the more ‘standard’ larger 5700 type machines.

I am in the UK and doosan support won’t be an issue but neither will the other suppliers, perk of a small country I guess and being snack bang in the middle.

I’m going to try and dig more info / a demo out maybe on one, I just don’t want it to lose 15-20 mins per cycle over a robo or similar for no gain as we won’t ever run hard materials - the 100-120 M4 tapped holes per cycle would really add up to some time If it lost a few seconds per drill and tap.

Noted about the chip removal too, I think as standard it has coolant wash down and rear trays which may be an issue.
 
I think the 4000 is the same speeds as the 5700 .

Most of the parts I do are 4th axis work and if I had to start over I would buy a Horizontal and only have a vertical for tooling and one off stuff . I am at the point were I run 4 verticals everyday and have been doing a lot of thinking about selling off three of them and buying a horizontal. I think one horizontal with a pool would easily keep up and make life a lot better.
 
The 4000 has 48mm/min v 36m/min rapids, a slightly faster chip to chip and a 12k spindle standard while the 4500 is 8k standard I believe, though it sounds like yours was a 12k

Looks like I’ll spend some time looking into the Fanuc too - even if we will be limited to 10k.

A horizontal would be ideal but it just isn’t happening right now.
 
We're taking delivery of a pair of Haas UMC500s in a couple weeks.

Our horizontals are at capacity with regards to dedicated fixturing (31 pallets across four machines), and with 2020 coming to a close, we're additionally incentivized to acquire new equipment for tax purposes.

HMCs aren't going away in our shop, but they're overkill for half the parts we make. Just a couple years ago, it didn't matter because the available alternatives weren't cost effective in comparison.

The UMC500 is a different story. A bit of game changer possibly, at least on paper. For about the price of 2-pallet horizontal, you can get two UMC500s. Where the UMC lacks in axis speed, rigidity, spindle horsepower, and pallet payload, it makes up for in quantity of spindles and 5-axis positioning. I'll be posting photos and videos of our machines over the next few weeks/months and will document how it all pans out. I have high hopes.

Compared to a vertical with a rotary, the price shouldn't be too far off. At the least, chip control should be light years ahead. Due to limited head room, tombstone capacity would be reduced; you won't get 8 parts per run, more like 4 or 5, but you can hot swap a fully-loaded small tombstone in about 30 seconds, and the next job is also just a 30-second swap away.
 
The UMC500 looks good, but is almost twice the price as the DNM4000 with rotary and TSC and we are short on space so stuck to a small VMC right now.

Would probably just go for the Speedio but it’s likely just priced out of the ballpark when optioned up with TSC, rotary etc.

I just don’t want to lose huge amounts of time drilling and tapping with say the DNM4000 over something like a Robo.
 
Hi all, there are a world of opinions about the usual options like the Speedio for small machines / aluminium work but I can’t find much real world info about the DNM4000 from doosan.

We need a new machine to run with a 4th axis tombstone, two aluminium parts each side (8 total, approx 120mm square, 20mm tall) with some 12mm roughing / outside profile (15mm deep) some 12mm 6x dia drilling and approx 15 m4 tapped holes a side with a few other features - machine will only ever run aluminium or this specific job.

Parts should run for 1.5-2hrs unattended, we are not chasing every micro second but want something that won’t hang about - all programmed by CAM and small batch production, jobs not being changed daily.

The Speedo is likely out right now (so please no ‘get a Speedio comments ;-) ), the machines in the ballpark are the 10k Robodrill, the Hurco VMX30Di -
(Direct 15k spindle) and the Doosan DNM4000 which is the machine I would like a little more info about (may look at Haas DM but less keen so far)

The Doosan comes with TSC as standard and a 12k DD spindle, BT40 - we have good local support for all 3, doosan probably the best.

Thanks.


I work for Doosan. I'd be glad to answer any of your questions. Basically, the machine was developed for a specific company actually. Robodrill in size (not quite), 40 taper, dual contact, 12K spindle. I believe for such a small table and travels, it still uses the larger roller bearings. They were built to be lite and to be moved in and out of production cells easily. Still at 3300Kg, a stout machine. Same spindle as it's bigger brothers. List price is 87K but that is only the quote price.

Main Features


  • Fanuc 0i-M Control
  • Meehanite cast iron bed
  • High precision, direct coupled spindle design with (11 / 18.5 kw \ 15 / 25 hp motor, 12,000 rpm)
  • Spindle oil chiller
  • Spindle orientation, load meter, override and rigid tapping
  • Cam Type, Double Arm ATC (20 tools)
  • Large Linear Roller Guides (X - 25 mm \ .984", Y - 35 mm \ 1.377", Z - 35 mm \ 1.377")
  • Servo motors mounted directly to the oversized, double pre-tensioned ball screws (X - 32 mm \ 1.259", Y - 32 mm \ 1.259", Z - 32 mm \ 1.259")
  • Fast rapid traverse rate (X - 48 m/min \ 1,889 ipm, Y - 48 m/min \ 1,889 ipm, Z - 48 m/min \ 1,889 ipm)
  • AICC 1 (40 block look ahead)
  • Renishaw probe ready (OMI-2T optical receiver and GUI software only)
  • Doosan Tool Load Monitoring and Adaptive Feedrate Control
  • Doosan Smart Thermal Monitoring (Software algorithm based thermal compensation system)

Standard Equipment and Warranty


  • 20 bar (230 psi) Through spindle coolant, Air through spindle
  • Flood coolant with large separate coolant tank (200 liter \ 52 gallon)
  • Bed flush coolant system
  • Full enclosure splash guard
  • Telescopic covers
  • Eco friendly grease lubrication with 1 cartridge pre-installed on the machine
  • Portable manual pulse generator
  • Program and data protection key
  • Work light and 3 color tower signal light
  • Two-year machine parts warranty, one-year labor warranty. See warranty pages for details.
  • Two-year control warranty: Parts and Labor
  • Doosan instruction, operation, parts list and electrical drawing manuals in hardcopy format
  • FANUC manuals provided on USB drive (Hardcopy available for purchase, contact parts department)
 
Thanks for the reply and info -

We are in the UK and have good support from Mills so happy with the support and supply side.

The machine suits in terms of floor space and standard equipment and on paper looks good, my reservation as above is how much time the machine may give up with small drill / tap ops / aluminium work as everyone I have seen using the machine is machining hard materials.

Any customers using them as a more stout robo / Speedio alternative in aluminium?

Are customers using the standard ‘chip pan’ to any success? I assume the cabinet is chip washed into the pans at the rear.

Thank.
 
Would probably just go for the Speedio but it’s likely just priced out of the ballpark when optioned up with TSC, rotary etc.

Curious if it's a UK thing. The Speedios consistently win on performance and price over here. Your parts sound perfect for a Speedio. Here are a couple of recent set ups we provided:

20200903_144401.jpg

27355.jpg

27356.jpg

20191122_135500.jpg

Rotaries are included with about half of the machines we install.
 
I agree the Speedio is a great fit for this work but inc the rotary, TSC and 16k spindle is considerably more expensive putting it out of the picture.

Base price is similar but no TSC, 10k spindle and 14 tools.
 
Thanks for the reply and info -

We are in the UK and have good support from Mills so happy with the support and supply side.

The machine suits in terms of floor space and standard equipment and on paper looks good, my reservation as above is how much time the machine may give up with small drill / tap ops / aluminium work as everyone I have seen using the machine is machining hard materials.

Any customers using them as a more stout robo / Speedio alternative in aluminium?

Are customers using the standard ‘chip pan’ to any success? I assume the cabinet is chip washed into the pans at the rear.

Thank.


Most of the applications I have seen were Aluminum. Except for IMTS 2018 where it was making 1911 slides on a rotary.The fact that it can cut hardened steel should prove the stoutness of the machine for Aluminum, except for maybe the spindle speed at "only" 12K.
 
We're taking delivery of a pair of Haas UMC500s in a couple weeks.

Our horizontals are at capacity with regards to dedicated fixturing (31 pallets across four machines), and with 2020 coming to a close, we're additionally incentivized to acquire new equipment for tax purposes.

HMCs aren't going away in our shop, but they're overkill for half the parts we make. Just a couple years ago, it didn't matter because the available alternatives weren't cost effective in comparison.

The UMC500 is a different story. A bit of game changer possibly, at least on paper. For about the price of 2-pallet horizontal, you can get two UMC500s. Where the UMC lacks in axis speed, rigidity, spindle horsepower, and pallet payload, it makes up for in quantity of spindles and 5-axis positioning. I'll be posting photos and videos of our machines over the next few weeks/months and will document how it all pans out. I have high hopes.

Compared to a vertical with a rotary, the price shouldn't be too far off. At the least, chip control should be light years ahead. Due to limited head room, tombstone capacity would be reduced; you won't get 8 parts per run, more like 4 or 5, but you can hot swap a fully-loaded small tombstone in about 30 seconds, and the next job is also just a 30-second swap away.

i hope you guys have better luck with yours than we did with ours. thankfully haas agreed to take their lemon back.
 
I’m comparing pricing to the DoosanDNM4000

We don’t have a quote for a robo but they put out a promo video through MTD at £80k for ‘advanced’ mid size machine with TSC, direct drive rotary and 10k spindle.

Ok, I’m going to need to take a look into chip control on the Doosan.
 








 
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