Drill tap center

machfab · Feb 4, 2019

Anyone have experience with this machine?

Tapping Center | Get The SYIL T3 Tapping Center Machine Now

Chinese company, but has a broad range of machines.
Quality looks to be sufficient
Controller options are Siemens and Fanuc.
We are considering......

2outof3 · Feb 4, 2019

Why that machine? Why that company?

machfab · Feb 4, 2019

2outof3 said:
Why that machine? Why that company?

There are only three companies that offer the small machine that I am aware of.(T3 sized)
We have a small space to work with and I know these wouldn't be even in the same league as the Brothers & Robodrills, but just for the sake of comparison.

Philabuster · Feb 4, 2019

2outof3 said:
Why that machine? Why that company?

I would wager it has something to do with the bean counters:
[h=4]Base Price: $43,750[/h]
No thank you. If it was me, I would stick to a proven machine with parts and support available in the USA.

Mebfab · Feb 4, 2019

On the website they talk about

What is the cost of a SYIL CNC machine? Most of our customers initially come to us with this question. They want a low CNC machine price for their projects. Since we are a Chinese brand, they think it must be cheap. But at SYIL, we do not claim to be the cheapest. Instead, we are confident that we can offer you something much better: outstanding quality CNC machine tools at affordable price points. Challenge us by asking for a quote.

But at a base price of $44K vs haas 48K...... One is US made, one has service, support and parts next town over and a huge installed base. Any part is still continental US. Haas ships from Ca, no improt or customs. I think the other is on container at dock. With the POTUS looking to put tariffs on it. And if the $44K base then gets a tariff.... No chance in hell

mhajicek · Feb 4, 2019

It all depends on what you want to do with it and what you expect from it.

machfab · Feb 4, 2019

Mebfab said:
On the website they talk about

What is the cost of a SYIL CNC machine? Most of our customers initially come to us with this question. They want a low CNC machine price for their projects. Since we are a Chinese brand, they think it must be cheap. But at SYIL, we do not claim to be the cheapest. Instead, we are confident that we can offer you something much better: outstanding quality CNC machine tools at affordable price points. Challenge us by asking for a quote.

But at a base price of $44K vs haas 48K...... One is US made, one has service, support and parts next town over and a huge installed base. Any part is still continental US. Haas ships from Ca, no improt or customs. I think the other is on container at dock. With the POTUS looking to put tariffs on it. And if the $44K base then gets a tariff.... No chance in hell

Good point!!

DethloffMfg · Feb 4, 2019

Brother Speedio
Fanuc Robodrill
DMG Mori Milltap??
Haas DT/DM
Ganesh
Syil

These are all Drill/Tap style machines. I have only run the Brother I just got so I have a very very limited opinion. With that said, if I was looking to go full bore into a DT style machine (which I did.... I just stepped away from it...) then I would want the fastest, most reliable one that's going to pump parts out as quick as possible. Otherwise what's the point? The compromises of a DT machine (smaller taper, generally smaller working area, generally fewer tools than many VMC's) are not worth having unless you are going to capitalize on their benefits (lightning fast tool changes, very fast accelerations and rapids, powerful controls, RELIABILITY).

A $50k machine starts to look very expensive next to a $75k machine when you're constantly fixing things, slowing down the cuts, waiting on slow tool changes, repairing cheap parts, and working with a weak under-developed control.

2outof3 · Feb 4, 2019

machfab said:
There are only three companies that offer the small machine that I am aware of.(T3 sized)
We have a small space to work with and I know these wouldn't be even in the same league as the Brothers & Robodrills, but just for the sake of comparison.

Does the service come form Coos Bay, Oregon?

machfab · Feb 4, 2019

2outof3 said:
Does the service come form Coos Bay, Oregon?

I think there is a location on the east coast as well.

Hazzert · Feb 4, 2019

A guy named Nerdly on youtube bought a Syil branded machine and has a install and walk around video of it. IIRC the electrical was neat and he didn't have any immediate complaints. It's a bit more of a toy than what you're considering but if they pay attention to the details on their cheap machines you'd hope that follows through on their higher value machines.

YouTube

Vancbiker · Feb 4, 2019

2outof3 said:
Does the service come form Coos Bay, Oregon?

Why, isn't that the center of the west coast machine tool universe??

eaglemike · Feb 4, 2019

machfab said:
Anyone have experience with this machine?

Tapping Center | Get The SYIL T3 Tapping Center Machine Now

Chinese company, but has a broad range of machines.
Quality looks to be sufficient
Controller options are Siemens and Fanuc.
We are considering......

My advice would be don't go there. I think you are likely to spend a lot of money on Excedrin if you buy that machine and are serious about machining. I looked at those and several others a couple of years ago. Find a way to step up a bit, and get a 12"(S300) Brother, or S500 if you are buying new. Get minimal options if you must.

footpetaljones · Feb 4, 2019

I have a bit of a different perspective than most here, since I'm a service tech not a machinist, but I think I can add a bit to the conversation.

-Their parts manual shows the machine having 25mm roller guides and fixed ends on every ballscrew. The guides are comparable in size to a Robodrill (though the Robodrill is THK vs Hiwin), but the supports are much better than a Robodrill, which has a floating end on the Y and Z. I can't comment on the quality of Syil's bearings, but they at least give you a size to reference.

-Ballscrew sizes aren't given. 20 or 25mm, I'd guess. Probably Hiwin again, maybe another Taiwanese brand (TBI, PMI?).

-Spindles are not Big Plus.

-Their electrical manual is... well at least they gave you something. That's more than 90% of Chinese manufacturers do.

-Siemens parts can be ordered from other sources when necessary.

My take: not a good buy.

It looks like it has all the parts there to make a good medium range machine, but so much is determined by the care the builder puts into the making it's a huge risk. The machine might arrive and make good parts. Or it can arrive with a terribly ground spindle or need the table to be squared. Are you prepared to do that work yourself? Because you will be the the only one in the US who has seen one of these machines. That's after the headache of customs.

That's not to say good stuff can't come out of China. Look at any Brother for an example.

And even if the machine is the best 30 taper machine ever made, ballscrews and spindles are practically consumables. Any tech worth 2 pennies can rip a ballscrew out and throw a new one in in a day, but how long will it take to ship one over? If they even have stock of them. Methods and Yamazen have literally hundreds of ballscrews and spindles sitting on shelves. If a button on the control goes out, how many emails will it take to get a part number?

If I was looking to save some cash, I'd look at a 5-10 year old machine and have it inspected under power. Stick to Haas, Brother, or Fanuc.

Here's a 5 year old Robodrill on ebay for only 5 grand more than the Syil: Link
The same seller has a 2011 iF for $52.5k.

Vancbiker · Feb 4, 2019

footpetaljones said:
I have a bit of a different perspective than most here, since I'm a service tech not a machinist, but I think I can add a bit to the conversation. ........

As a retired service tech, I too look at machinery differently than most.

I'd be concerned about control integration.

How well is the ladder logic written.

Documentation: Accurate and comprehensive?

I'm not a Sinumerik fan so if I was buying, would order it with the Mitsu control. Yes, I'd go Mitsu over Fanuc in a case like this. Very rare to be able to edit the ladder on the screen on Fanuc controls. Most Mitsu controls can edit the ladder and PLC data on the screen. Poor ladder logic is very common on low cost machines. Once you discover a bug you can edit or add logic to fix it. Create your own alarm messages. You name it.

machfab · Feb 4, 2019

footpetaljones said:
I have a bit of a different perspective than most here, since I'm a service tech not a machinist, but I think I can add a bit to the conversation.

-Their parts manual shows the machine having 25mm roller guides and fixed ends on every ballscrew. The guides are comparable in size to a Robodrill (though the Robodrill is THK vs Hiwin), but the supports are much better than a Robodrill, which has a floating end on the Y and Z. I can't comment on the quality of Syil's bearings, but they at least give you a size to reference.

-Ballscrew sizes aren't given. 20 or 25mm, I'd guess. Probably Hiwin again, maybe another Taiwanese brand (TBI, PMI?).

-Spindles are not Big Plus.

-Their electrical manual is... well at least they gave you something. That's more than 90% of Chinese manufacturers do.

-Siemens parts can be ordered from other sources when necessary.

My take: not a good buy.

It looks like it has all the parts there to make a good medium range machine, but so much is determined by the care the builder puts into the making it's a huge risk. The machine might arrive and make good parts. Or it can arrive with a terribly ground spindle or need the table to be squared. Are you prepared to do that work yourself? Because you will be the the only one in the US who has seen one of these machines. That's after the headache of customs.

That's not to say good stuff can't come out of China. Look at any Brother for an example.

And even if the machine is the best 30 taper machine ever made, ballscrews and spindles are practically consumables. Any tech worth 2 pennies can rip a ballscrew out and throw a new one in in a day, but how long will it take to ship one over? If they even have stock of them. Methods and Yamazen have literally hundreds of ballscrews and spindles sitting on shelves. If a button on the control goes out, how many emails will it take to get a part number?

If I was looking to save some cash, I'd look at a 5-10 year old machine and have it inspected under power. Stick to Haas, Brother, or Fanuc.

Here's a 5 year old Robodrill on ebay for only 5 grand more than the Syil: Link
The same seller has a 2011 iF for $52.5k.

Very good analysis! I think we will steer clear of brands without support and representation in this country.
Thanks for all of the replies and insights. It is very helpful being a part of this forum and I hope to be able to contribute as much.

eaglemike · Feb 4, 2019

footpetaljones said:
I have a bit of a different perspective than most here, since I'm a service tech not a machinist, but I think I can add a bit to the conversation.

-Their parts manual shows the machine having 25mm roller guides and fixed ends on every ballscrew. The guides are comparable in size to a Robodrill (though the Robodrill is THK vs Hiwin), but the supports are much better than a Robodrill, which has a floating end on the Y and Z. I can't comment on the quality of Syil's bearings, but they at least give you a size to reference.

-Ballscrew sizes aren't given. 20 or 25mm, I'd guess. Probably Hiwin again, maybe another Taiwanese brand (TBI, PMI?).

-Spindles are not Big Plus.

-Their electrical manual is... well at least they gave you something. That's more than 90% of Chinese manufacturers do.

-Siemens parts can be ordered from other sources when necessary.

My take: not a good buy.

It looks like it has all the parts there to make a good medium range machine, but so much is determined by the care the builder puts into the making it's a huge risk. The machine might arrive and make good parts. Or it can arrive with a terribly ground spindle or need the table to be squared. Are you prepared to do that work yourself? Because you will be the the only one in the US who has seen one of these machines. That's after the headache of customs.

That's not to say good stuff can't come out of China. Look at any Brother for an example.

And even if the machine is the best 30 taper machine ever made, ballscrews and spindles are practically consumables. Any tech worth 2 pennies can rip a ballscrew out and throw a new one in in a day, but how long will it take to ship one over? If they even have stock of them. Methods and Yamazen have literally hundreds of ballscrews and spindles sitting on shelves. If a button on the control goes out, how many emails will it take to get a part number?

If I was looking to save some cash, I'd look at a 5-10 year old machine and have it inspected under power. Stick to Haas, Brother, or Fanuc.

Here's a 5 year old Robodrill on ebay for only 5 grand more than the Syil: Link
The same seller has a 2011 iF for $52.5k.

Brothers are Chinese????
Seriously?
Where'd you get this info?

footpetaljones · Feb 4, 2019

eaglemike said:
Brothers are Chinese????
Seriously?
Where'd you get this info?

Yamazen tech friends in low places.

There's a ton of confusion on what exactly comes from China and what is Japanese on Brothers and Big Brother keeps their lips tight on it. Best I have been able to piece together axis subassemblies, electrical cabinets, and coolant systems are made in China, spindles, headstocks, and final assembly are done in Japan. Whether that makes them Japanese or Chinese depends on where you draw the line on a grey bar.

DavidScott · Feb 4, 2019

One of the Brother reps has said they are made in China, if memory serves. The post was someone pricing drill/tap machines and he was in asia somewhere, perhaps China. His price was real cheap compared to the US, because he wouldn't have to pay tariffs or customs.

eaglemike · Feb 4, 2019

DavidScott said:
One of the Brother reps has said they are made in China, if memory serves. The post was someone pricing drill/tap machines and he was in asia somewhere, perhaps China. His price was real cheap compared to the US, because he wouldn't have to pay tariffs or customs.

I'm waiting for someone from Yamazen to come in here. I think there might be an undercurrent..... There is a local guy in SoCal that seems to always want to stick it to Yamazen.
There was a version that was made in China. The Speedio in the US are not made in China. Some components, even Haas has Chinese components.

Drill tap center

Aluminum

Titanium

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Cast Iron

Titanium

Aluminum

Stainless

Diamond

Stainless

Aluminum

Diamond

Aluminum

Stainless

Aluminum

Diamond

Stainless

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