Ebay purchase PSA..........serrated hard jaws.

david n · Dec 14, 2020

So I have seen these jaws linked or referenced a few times here on PM. Bunch of guys here said that they worked great.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-MILLING-STEEL-VISE-HARD-JAW-6-WIDE-SERRATED-0-100-STEP/273077025751

https://www.ebay.com/usr/bigtexanbackyard?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

The guy sells them on Ebay and they looked like something that would fit a bunch of different setups in the shop. So gave 'em a shot and bought two sets. Just this last week I set up a job that I had in mind for them. Clamping on 6061 in an Orange dual station vise. The very first parts in the jaws caused the teeth to bend and deform. WTH?????? :angry:

So before I went on a complete tirade and jumped the guy, I sent him a message asking if he had and kind of guarantee or warranty. He tells me that the jaws are consumable tooling and I was outa luck. :rolleyes5:

Told me too much clamp pressure could damage the jaws.................Huh? :nutter:

I'm no gorilla, but I know how "tight" something should be in a milling vise. So I can only lightly clamp my parts with serrated jaws? I might as well go back to hard jaws and just torque 'em....................Maybe they weren't hardened correctly? I told the guy if I didn't hear back I'd throw up a post/review of them here...................silence.

So buyer beware......................Maybe you 'll get a good set or end up with junk like me..........Other guys that bought them, how are they standing up? I'm gonna toss them on the grinder and knock off the teeth and I guess I'll have 2 very expensive sets of stepped hard jaws................. :bawling:

........................................

Hardplates · Dec 14, 2020

I've played with making serrated jaws a fair bit in the past and decided they are not worth the trouble. Too hard and they break, too soft and they bend. You can't use a 45 degree cutter or the teeth are too weak, the closer to vertical the angle is the stronger they are.

The fact they are bragging about them being CNC ground should be the first clue as to cluelessness. Why would anyone care if jaws for holding first op rough stock are ultra precision?

I decided a while back that putting a 0.060" 60 degree dovetail on all my stock is the best solution. The little extra time it takes to run the stock through another machine is easily made up for by being able to set the "production" machine on KILL with no worries of pulling a part out.

cb750chris · Dec 14, 2020

Interesting... I've had the exact same ones for over a year and a half and haven't had any trouble. Really like them actually. I have only used them in aluminum though and max torque has been about 45lbft with a tq wrench. I hope their other design with the removable teeth work out since I just got some to give as a gift.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

MeanMachine1980 · Dec 14, 2020

Take a look at the mitee bite talon grips. Much cheaper and they work Extremely great! You can also save a bunch of money by making your own steel vise insert that holds the hardened steel grippers. You can buy them for about $14 each. You will need 4 of them ss for about $60 and a hour of machining a chunk of 1018 you will have an awesome serrated jaws. They only need .060" to bite on to. Ive never had a part come loose. And when you deck one off with a cutter you can always replace it. They also allow you to move them for different placements.

Mike1974 · Dec 14, 2020

I don't think it's "fair" to group all serrated jaws together. The 5th axis vise with them worked very well and they had a 45 dovetail

Mike1974 · Dec 14, 2020

Depending on your work, I would recommend versa grips over talon grips. They work the same more or less, but they are round so you can spin then to hold round or odd shapes, casting, etc

Garwood · Dec 14, 2020

I use those same Ebay ones and they are holding up great. They are file hard and bite through mill scale fine. I tighten my vises pretty tight.

I think it's BS the seller won't stand behind it. I cannot recommend them if that's the case.

wheelieking71 · Dec 14, 2020

I have been using Talon Grips for a very long time (well over 10 years). They really kind of define the work-flow in my shop.
Everything (and I mean everything) that is not the high volume production stuff, starts in Talon Grips. They work great.

Now, having said that, I am switching to these: 1" Piranha Strip | MMM-USA LLC

Reasons: the big one, THE SCREW! They use a much larger screw to retain the gripper in the jaw.
My biggest complaint with the Talon Grips is the screws. Especially since they went away from the countersunk flat-head screws.
And, started using the tiny little button-head looking things. I freaking HATE those little screws. The thread is too small, and they don't stay tight.
At least, even with the tiny 10-32 thread, the C'sunk flat-heads would stay tight. The new screws (last few years) are worthless.
The Piranha strips "look" heavier duty. That has yet to be determined.
And, finally, the Piranha strips hold .080" (up to .120" I think). The Talon-Grips hold .060" stock. I mod all mine to hold .080".
.060" is fine when your stock has square corners. But, I get some extruded bar in that has at least a .060" rad on the corner. No way I'm trusting that!
I have actually re-ordered material before because the rad was too big for Talon Grips.

Yea the Piranhas cost a little more. But, comparing them side by side in your hand with the Talons? You are getting a lot more. They just give me a bigger warm fuzzy.

That sucks about those jaws you got of the ebay guy Dave! Thanks for posting your customer service experience!

dandrummerman21 · Dec 14, 2020

wheelieking71 said:
I have been using Talon Grips for a very long time (well over 10 years). They really kind of define the work-flow in my shop.
Everything (and I mean everything) that is not the high volume production stuff, starts in Talon Grips. They work great.

Now, having said that, I am switching to these: 1" Piranha Strip | MMM-USA LLC

Reasons: the big one, THE SCREW! They use a much larger screw to retain the gripper in the jaw.
My biggest complaint with the Talon Grips is the screws. Especially since they went away from the countersunk flat-head screws.
And, started using the tiny little button-head looking things. I freaking HATE those little screws. The thread is too small, and they don't stay tight.
At least, even with the tiny 10-32 thread, the C'sunk flat-heads would stay tight. The new screws (last few years) are worthless.
The Piranha strips "look" heavier duty. That has yet to be determined.
And, finally, the Piranha strips hold .080" (up to .120" I think). The Talon-Grips hold .060" stock. I mod all mine to hold .080".
.060" is fine when your stock has square corners. But, I get some extruded bar in that has at least a .060" rad on the corner. No way I'm trusting that!
I have actually re-ordered material before because the rad was too big for Talon Grips.

Yea the Piranhas cost a little more. But, comparing them side by side in your hand with the Talons? You are getting a lot more. They just give me a bigger warm fuzzy.

Those look very nice.

Let me ask, since I have about 10 sets of the talon grip, and used them back when they were countersunk: Did you ever have problems with the screw being IMPOSSIBLE to remove without drilling it out or smacking it with a punch? I felt like any time I needed to replace a gripper or move them, add more, or put a stop on it, half of the damn things would not budge, breaking allen wrenches and pissing me off.

I have not noticed any coming loose since they changed them to counterbores. The allen keys are also larger for the shcs's.

IDK if I should mention this, but I made my own grippers out of some A2 that came ground from mcmaster. If i didn't have about 100 of them, the one thing I might do is make them .020 taller and maybe make it look a little more like this pirahna strip version...

nateacox · Dec 14, 2020

I make and sell my own version. We also run them daily in every CNC mill in the shop and they work great. We hold everything from aluminum to Titanium with no issues. I'm happy to sell you a set. Unlike the ebay guy, i stand behind mine.

Pete Deal · Dec 14, 2020

David N: That's a shame. No way in 6061 those should have rolled over like that. I have been using talon grips in 1018 and they don't roll over. Although I did have a little issue with my latest batch of talon grips. Some of the nibs were a little short and were not biting into the bar while others were. Anyway, I called Mitee bite and the guy said "Let me guess the tips deformed" which I said no they were wrong from the start. So I guess they had a heat treat issue too. Anyway, they are going to replace them.

The ebay guy is really shooting himself in the foot. I have an ebay store and sell a lot. Anybody got any issue whatsoever I take them back. Even if it's their fault. Or at least replace the component

Finegrain · Dec 14, 2020

dandrummerman21 said:
Let me ask, since I have about 10 sets of the talon grip, and used them back when they were countersunk: Did you ever have problems with the screw being IMPOSSIBLE to remove without drilling it out or smacking it with a punch? I felt like any time I needed to replace a gripper or move them, add more, or put a stop on it, half of the damn things would not budge, breaking allen wrenches and pissing me off.

Yes, but only with the jaws supplied by Talon Grip. I had to bore out 4 or 5 stripped-out screws. Now I make my own jaws out of tight-tolerance 1018. I have no idea why, but I have yet to get a stuck screw with my jaws, and I've moved them around 100's of times.

The Piranha strips look really nice. If I didn't already have several dozen Talon Grip cleats, I might try the Piranha's. There's someone else makes something like that too.

Regards.

Mike

wheelieking71 · Dec 14, 2020

dandrummerman21 said:
Let me ask, since I have about 10 sets of the talon grip, and used them back when they were countersunk: Did you ever have problems with the screw being IMPOSSIBLE to remove without drilling it out or smacking it with a punch? I felt like any time I needed to replace a gripper or move them, add more, or put a stop on it, half of the damn things would not budge, breaking allen wrenches and pissing me off.

Yes, in the very beginning (way back when I worked for somebody else). The first time I went to loosen them, I found they were VERY tight.
Ever since then I would only tighten them up to just "cute". Never had a problem after that. (until they changed screw styles).
The other problem I have had with the Talon Grips is: getting metric screws instead of 10-32!
The metric screw will thread in the jaw. But, it ain't right. Has has an even bigger problem with coming loose.

kazlx · Dec 14, 2020

I really like the Anderson SerraJaws and have multiple sets. I don't mind Talons either, but I just like being able to clamp the entire length. The other nice feature is the lasered marks. I rarely use a stop for first op stuff. I can easily repeat location within a few thou by eye. I'm also using the Orange double stations. I have been using the 8" Kurt versions but just got the 8" Carvesmart versions as well. Works awesome for everything I do.

He's a great dude, stands behind his stuff. I had a small issue with one of the jaws and he sent me a new set. No relation, just a happy customer and will continue to buy from him.

Serra Jaw

– Anderson Manufacturing Inc

Pete Deal · Dec 14, 2020

Regarding the amount of grab...

I just finished a batch of these parts shown below. Material is 1018 and the strip warps quite a bit. I try to keep the back strap as thin as possible so I can get it flat pretty easily for the second operation. If it get to .1" or so it's pretty tough to get in the vise flat.

Ianagos · Dec 14, 2020

I use mighty bite talons and they work as advertised untill I cut them accidentally.

I thought about buying a few sets of these jaws and I will make sure to avoid them. Even if they had an issue the fact that the seller did that to you sucks.

Make sure to leave him negative feedback and then write a review on eBay for the item.

Glad I saw this thread I’ll stick with mighty bite.

doug925 · Dec 14, 2020

dandrummerman21 said:
Those look very nice.

Did you ever have problems with the screw being IMPOSSIBLE to remove without drilling it out or smacking it with a punch?

We always have to smack the FHCS with a small punch, in the allen key, hole.
If not, they strip out instantly.
I have no idea why the screws seem to 'self-tighten' when being used, but I can promise you, the torque needed to break the screw free is 2x as much as I tightened them. :rolleyes5:

I still own quite a few sets though. The talons and the versa grips are used daily here.

Doug.

DavidScott · Dec 14, 2020

Switch the allen sockets out for Torx Plus, they are MUCH bigger in the #10 flat head screws. Also spring for Torx Plus 1/4" drive bits held in a socket, way better than a wrench.

gregormarwick · Dec 15, 2020

I machined serrations in the hard jaws on one of our komtas vices about 10 years ago and they're still there, get used about every day. I made the teeth longer, like they are on lang etc., about 4-5mm of tooth and 2mm gap, used a 60 deg dovetail.

They have got slightly deformed over time but they have been used on some hard stuff now and again, and they are still perfectly functional.

I can't quite fathom how soft those must be to deform like that on 6061, but also I'd say the geometry of the teeth is very fragile to begin with.

Mike1974 · Dec 15, 2020

I've had the opposite of wheelies, as some other guys. Those damn screws don't want to come out in talon grips! :angry:

I would guess it's because of the constant lateral force on them from clamping. Maybe somehow someway that clamping force causes some teeny tiny bit of rotation... but can't say (for me) why it's always tighter. :confused:

My "trick" is to use a small pipe and a rag wrapped over/around the L section of key, just in case it breaks or slips.

Ebay purchase PSA..........serrated hard jaws.

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