ER or TG collets?
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  1. #1
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    Default ER or TG collets?

    We have always used TG100 collets in our CNC mills without any problems. In our newer mill/turns we have gone to ER collets (to conserve space) and they work great too. I'm thinking of standardizing on ER collets only, any down side to that? We use end mill holders for milling in machining centers, collets for drills, taps, counterbores, countersinks and milling in mill/ turns.

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    I love ER series collets. From ER8 all the way to ER50 you can get the exact series size for your application. Plus you have ER11,16,20, and 25 that have "mininut" versions where the collet nut is slimmer than normal for reaching into tight places. Good grip and easily available. Collets are available in coolant sealing for thru the tool coolant applcations. Good to great concentricity. Double the collapse range of TG collets.

    So popular in fact that some people are starting to use it for workholding aplications. These idiots are stocking ER hex collets...

    ER Shaped Collets - MariTool

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    I love ER series collets. From ER8 all the way to ER50 you can get the exact series size for your application. Plus you have ER11,16,20, and 25 that have "mininut" versions where the collet nut is slimmer than normal for reaching into tight places. Good grip and easily available. Collets are available in coolant sealing for thru the tool coolant applcations. Good to great concentricity. Double the collapse range of TG collets.

    So popular in fact that some people are starting to use it for workholding aplications. These idiots are stocking ER hex collets...

    ER Shaped Collets - MariTool
    Ha! Crazy bastards!

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    I'm using an ER-40 for workholding on my 5 axis trunnion for making "Swiss parts". Works great! I can even use it for some second ops by putting a round shim of known thickness under it to bottom the part on.

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    I actually went from ER collets back to endmill holders because I couldn't get our collets to run true enough or hold tight enough for our applications. I suspect the junk Chinese collets I was supplied with had something to do with it, as well as the fact that I could only get metric collets that didn't line up very well with our imperial tooling. Side lock EM holders will always have some run out, so ER collets have the potential to run more true, but I was never able to get even close. I don't think "standardizing to only one tool" is ever a good solution, I like to pick the best tool for the job. And ER collets are a very good choice for many jobs. But for high pull out forces on endmills or very tight clearance areas, I've found normal sidelock holders to be superior. On the other hand, tap holder collets are a godsend, and having a good ER selection for oddball drill sizes and weird form tools is flat out necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    So popular in fact that some people are starting to use it for workholding aplications. These idiots are stocking ER hex collets...

    ER Shaped Collets - MariTool
    Those are for work holding? And here I thought you were going to start selling hex-shank endmills.

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    On a more serious note, I run some TG100 and TG75 toolholders because of inertia. I don't think I would buy more of them without a very compelling reason.

    Advantages of ER
    1) Stickout. With an ER collet, the collet and nut faces are coplanar; the TG collet face is below the nut face, which means the tool has more stickout. I am told though, that some holder brands are flush for TG
    2) Better availability
    3) More sizes
    4) Easier to undo (although my guess is that this is due to the steeper angle, which also decreases holding power)

    Advantages of TG
    1) hex nut instead of slotted nut. Tightening/loosening them is easier
    2) shallower angle for more holding power.

    I haven't used them, but a lot of people swear by SK collets. They are the same shallow angle as TG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    We have always used TG100 collets in our CNC mills without any problems. In our newer mill/turns we have gone to ER collets (to conserve space) and they work great too. I'm thinking of standardizing on ER collets only, any down side to that? We use end mill holders for milling in machining centers, collets for drills, taps, counterbores, countersinks and milling in mill/ turns.
    ER collets are great. They are not the best at anything, but they are very good for everything. They have reasonably low run out, good balance generally, decent holding power, Inexpensive. Also don't be afraid to put end mills in there too, depending on the application they work well. I do a lot of aluminum, all my 3 axis mills are 10-15hp, Ive roughed with 1/2 end mills in ER25 at 100 percent spindle load without pulling out. I don't do that in my stronger machines.


    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool-;3483289

    So popular in fact that some people are starting to use it for workholding aplications. These idiots are stocking ER hex collets...

    [url=https://www.maritool.com/Collets-ER-Shaped-Collets/c21_613/index.html
    ER Shaped Collets - MariTool[/url]
    Haha excellent. Also I'm intrigued. I'm thinking of getting Lang's ER collet fixture. A hex option might come in handy.

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    if you can keep the 2/3rds rule AF/TG collets have the strongest grip force but they tend to require a longer shank and the collets are more expensive than ER. ER25 are cheap like borsch and even the cheap Chinese collets are sub 2 ten thou TIR.

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    We haven't found any real advantage to SK collets. The more I am reading , the more convinced I'm going to go with ER32 collet chucks and collets. Kind of surprised at the widespread use of ER collets for tapping. We have always used special tap collets (even for small taps) because "we've always done it that way" but we were using TG100 collets that only run true for the specific size of the collet. For larger taps (over 1/2 inch ) or pipe taps, still think I will use tap collets, or thread mill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielG View Post
    On a more serious note, I run some TG100 and TG75 toolholders because of inertia. I don't think I would buy more of them without a very compelling reason.

    Advantages of ER
    1) Stickout. With an ER collet, the collet and nut faces are coplanar; the TG collet face is below the nut face, which means the tool has more stickout. I am told though, that some holder brands are flush for TG
    2) Better availability
    3) More sizes
    4) Easier to undo (although my guess is that this is due to the steeper angle, which also decreases holding power)

    Advantages of TG
    1) hex nut instead of slotted nut. Tightening/loosening them is easier
    2) shallower angle for more holding power.

    I haven't used them, but a lot of people swear by SK collets. They are the same shallow angle as TG.
    I much prefer TG over ER few thoughts...

    - I use Lyndex Nikken TG holders and the collet sits flush to the face, you can get nuts in both slotted or hex, we have both here.
    - Most likely true regarding availability, however I've had no problem getting collets/nuts/holders in a couple days.
    - We have every size in 1/64" increments so all sizes seem to be available.
    - Never had an issue loosening the nuts, the quality ones have a bearing and they work well.
    - Grip strength on TG is far higher than ER.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    Kind of surprised at the widespread use of ER collets for tapping. We have always used special tap collets (even for small taps) because "we've always done it that way" but we were using TG100 collets that only run true for the specific size of the collet. For larger taps (over 1/2 inch ) or pipe taps, still think I will use tap collets, or thread mill.
    I get calls all the time asking for tapping collets. I ask what size tap are you tapping, they say 5/16-24. I say save your money and use a standard round collet. I use a standard round ER32 collet for tapping 5/8-11 in 8620. Never slipped once. I see value in tapping collets for 3/4-16 for example or larger forming taps in stainless for example. But 1/4-20 in Alum, now your just not thinking and wasting your money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmari --MariTool- View Post
    I get calls all the time asking for tapping collets. I ask what size tap are you tapping, they say 5/16-24. I say save your money and use a standard round collet. I use a standard round ER32 collet for tapping 5/8-11 in 8620. Never slipped once. I see value in tapping collets for 3/4-16 for example or larger forming taps in stainless for example. But 1/4-20 in Alum, now your just not thinking and wasting your money.
    IME the primary benefit of using ER tap collets is length control. It forces a certain stickout for deeper tapping applications. Kind of a form of idiot proofing, oriented toward production applications.

    Grip wise, we've tapped 3/4-6 ACME in a regular Mari ER32 with no issues.

    We switched a bunch of a tools over to Mari's shrink fit as another form of idiot proofing. It's virtually impossible to "undertighten" a shrink fit toolholder, so most of our "heavy abuse" production endmills are now held in shrink, primarily 1/2" and a few 3/8".

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    No reason to start another thread. I keep getting conflicting or confusing info on how small the smallest ER-16 collet will close down to. I have a series of parts with an .018 hole that I have already ran a couple times.
    Will a 1/32 ER-16 collet close down to hold a .018 shank drill? I have actually been using a pin vise held in an ER-16 collet to hold the drill. It is a PITA to get that thing in there straight.

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    I use ER collets for almost everything, but TGs have more holding power for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    No reason to start another thread. I keep getting conflicting or confusing info on how small the smallest ER-16 collet will close down to. I have a series of parts with an .018 hole that I have already ran a couple times.
    Will a 1/32 ER-16 collet close down to hold a .018 shank drill? I have actually been using a pin vise held in an ER-16 collet to hold the drill. It is a PITA to get that thing in there straight.
    For really small drills, I'll either use a 0-1/8" Albrecht chuck, or an ER11 (or even ER8) extension chuck held in a larger toolholder. You can get smaller size steps in the 11 or 8 series.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    For really small drills, I'll either use a 0-1/8" Albrecht chuck, or an ER11 (or even ER8) extension chuck held in a larger toolholder. You can get smaller size steps in the 11 or 8 series.
    All my holders are ER-16 and they are an oddball metric size that fits the drill holders in my small Swiss perfectly with out bushings. That thing has so little clearance between tool positions I doubt I could get a chuck to fit.

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    Maritool claims their ER16 collets will grip down to .015"

    ER16 Collets Individual Metric and Imperial Sizes - MariTool

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    I have drilled 0.02 with an ER-16. You may have to hand select the collet as I generally see collets marked with the same size but different bands having different hole size

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenton View Post
    Maritool claims their ER16 collets will grip down to .015"

    ER16 Collets Individual Metric and Imperial Sizes - MariTool
    Thanks! Next time one of those jobs come up I will get one and replace a few others that are getting long in the tooth.


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