Face mill suggestions

primeholy · Sep 21, 2020

High Feed Face mill suggestions

We are having trouble getting inserts for our current facemill at the moment, and I am looking for suggestions for alternatives. This facemill will be used on a Makino F5 with 20k spindle with hsk-63a shank tools. We need something for high feed lighter cuts as the f5 cant hog. We are also cutting Finkl/fx material for forge dies, so it is tough stuff. Currently we are using this facemill R220.21-02.00-R160.4A | Secotools.com
with these inserts 218.19-160T-04-MD11 MP1500 | Secotools.com

Any suggestions from other brands would be greatly appreciated. Even just suggesting other manufacturers and I could contact them.

Thanks

ps we are running our current facemill at 1450rpm at 100 ipm .75 stepover at .02 DOC

ChipSplitter · Sep 21, 2020

Where to start........???

The SECO insert you linked has a flat neutral face so it will take a considerable amount of power compared to some others.

For bad-ass hogging at .07" DOC and .120 IPT I would go with this: Ingersoll PowerFeed 13+

If you want to drink the Iscar Koolaid, I'd buy this: Iscar FF FWX

For maximum insert economy with 16 edges: Iscar FF SOF

Hardplates · Sep 21, 2020

Tungaloy dofeed quad does the business for me.

Mtndew · Sep 22, 2020

primeholy said:
We are having trouble getting inserts for our current facemill at the moment, and I am looking for suggestions for alternatives. This facemill will be used on a Makino F5 with 20k spindle with hsk-63a shank tools. We need something for high feed lighter cuts as the f5 cant hog. We are also cutting Finkl/fx material for forge dies, so it is tough stuff. Currently we are using this facemill R220.21-02.00-R160.4A | Secotools.com
with these inserts 218.19-160T-04-MD11 MP1500 | Secotools.com

Any suggestions from other brands would be greatly appreciated. Even just suggesting other manufacturers and I could contact them.

Thanks

ps we are running our current facemill at 1450rpm at 100 ipm .75 stepover at .02 DOC

That's a high feed mill.
Any of the big name mfg's will have something just as good or better than what you have.
Sandvik,Kennametal,Iscar, etc...

primeholy · Sep 22, 2020

Mtndew said:
That's a high feed mill.
Any of the big name mfg's will have something just as good or better than what you have.
Sandvik,Kennametal,Iscar, etc...

Thank you! Adding high feed into the google machine really helped :dunce:

We call it a "high feed" face mill, but I didn't know that was a specific group of tooling, so only searched "face mill".

Iscar wants to send a rep. We don't like having reps out here, cause timing the use of the cutter doesn't always work out, and with covid, its even sketchier.

ChipSplitter · Sep 22, 2020

primeholy said:
Iscar wants to send a rep. We don't like having reps out here, cause timing the use of the cutter doesn't always work out, and with covid, its even sketchier.

Let them send a rep. He'll look at your parts and make a recommendation. Then you ask for a GTO (guaranteed test order) and run it at a later date with or without him there.

If you like it, you buy it. If you don't, send it back!

We can tell you how to spend your money, but having someone on your floor looking at your parts is invaluable.

Mike1974 · Sep 22, 2020

Hopefully someone can clarify for me. Not sure what they are called, but we bought a face/insert mill after a test run. Thinking Iscar, but as dew said, most everyone will have a version of. Insert was seated tangetially(?), so lots of carbide behind the cutting edge. Think we had a 1 1/4" diameter, but think they went up to 2". Good for heavy facing and side milling.

primeholy · Sep 22, 2020

I am currently not enjoying Coromant/sandvik support.

ChipSplitter · Sep 22, 2020

primeholy said:
I am currently not enjoying Coromant/sandvik support.

Welcome to the club........

Mike1974 · Sep 22, 2020

primeholy said:
I am currently not enjoying Coromant/sandvik support.

I think you have to be a big spender* to get their attention. When we were tooling up our Integrexes with C6 and alot of their tooling, we had a rep out twice a week, just researching part numbers and finding tools for us, like, hey I need an extended reach 1/2" 3 flute for aluminum, "OK, I'll see what we got and run them by you". And he had his own little work area, probably spent 10+ hours a week with us.

* I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't spend 100k with them over 2 years or so...

primeholy · Sep 22, 2020

ChipSplitter said:
Welcome to the club........

Very vague responses. They give as little info as possible. While Iscar is like WHEN CAN I COME OVER? NOW? UHHHH NOW?

ChipSplitter · Sep 22, 2020

primeholy said:
Very vague responses. They give as little info as possible. While Iscar is like WHEN CAN I COME OVER? NOW? UHHHH NOW?

My philosophy is if vendors apparently don't want my business, screw them! They ain't gittin' it either. :rolleyes5:

Oh, and ease of website use............navigating Sandvik's website is akin to wading through a bonfire while listening to nails on a chalkboard................ :crazy:

Emma99 · Sep 23, 2020

I did the exact same thing with Kaiser Boring Heads. I had a job that had 16-bores, 5.000 diameter, 5-inches thru the part, a tolerance of +0/-.0002 from hole to hole, top to bottom. Needless to say it was the best boring head I ever tried, and purchased immediately after the demo. Seco makes great tools, use the rep/tech support to get you from A to B.

CAMasochism · Sep 23, 2020

primeholy said:
I am currently not enjoying Coromant/sandvik support.

Support and Sandvik don't really belong in the same sentence.

ChipSplitter said:
Oh, and ease of website use............navigating Sandvik's website is akin to wading through a bonfire while listening to nails on a chalkboard................

Maybe you could teach me a thing or 2 on how to navigate it? That sounds a lot better than the time I just had.

I had to find a Coro 870 insert recently and spent probably 30 minutes just trying to find it, and then out of the ones showing up on their search which was the right one. I get the part number and give it to MSC and even they had to get someone to double check if it actually existed.

I hope the insert that comes in is the right one. :ack2:

dodgin · Sep 23, 2020

CAMasochism said:
Support and Sandvik don't really belong in the same sentence.

Maybe you could teach me a thing or 2 on how to navigate it? That sounds a lot better than the time I just had.

I had to find a Coro 870 insert recently and spent probably 30 minutes just trying to find it, and then out of the ones showing up on their search which was the right one. I get the part number and give it to MSC and even they had to get someone to double check if it actually existed.

I hope the insert that comes in is the right one.

Fuck Sandvik.

TeachMePlease · Sep 23, 2020

CAMasochism said:
Support and Sandvik don't really belong in the same sentence.

Maybe you could teach me a thing or 2 on how to navigate it? That sounds a lot better than the time I just had.

I had to find a Coro 870 insert recently and spent probably 30 minutes just trying to find it, and then out of the ones showing up on their search which was the right one. I get the part number and give it to MSC and even they had to get someone to double check if it actually existed.

I hope the insert that comes in is the right one.

Sandvik's website really isn't that bad, AS LONG AS you start with some idea of the nomenclature on what you want. For example, google tells me a Coro 870 is an insert drill. If you're looking for the insert, you must already know what the drill body part number is, right? It's printed right on it. Just search for the drill body. Then go to matching inserts. From there you can narrow it down by corner radius, grade, etc...

Hardplates · Sep 23, 2020

TeachMePlease said:
Sandvik's website really isn't that bad, AS LONG AS you start with some idea of the nomenclature on what you want. For example, google tells me a Coro 870 is an insert drill. If you're looking for the insert, you must already know what the drill body part number is, right? It's printed right on it. Just search for the drill body. Then go to matching inserts. From there you can narrow it down by corner radius, grade, etc...

Sounds too much like work :crazy:

CAMasochism · Sep 23, 2020

TeachMePlease said:
Sandvik's website really isn't that bad, AS LONG AS you start with some idea of the nomenclature on what you want. For example, google tells me a Coro 870 is an insert drill. If you're looking for the insert, you must already know what the drill body part number is, right? It's printed right on it. Just search for the drill body. Then go to matching inserts. From there you can narrow it down by corner radius, grade, etc...

One problem I've had is when I first used their site was just finding how to change from metric to imperial. It's not out in front as it is on other manufacturers, but buried in the settings for the site, who uses that on ANY other site?

Next is their asinine filter system for trying to narrow down tools. You can't just say, "I want this size." you have to use that god awful slider and get it around the size you want, you can't just try to place it directly on your size even if you know they make it or else it gets nothing. Next is trying to cypher out their grades and geometries with out even a small (?) to let you try to figure out what those random assortment of numbers even mean.

You finally guess your way through, put in your order with MSC, and then you end up on a phone party with 3 other people because, even being one of the biggest tool distributors in the world, THEY STILL CAN'T BE SURE WHAT THE EVER LIVING SHIT SANDVIK IS SELLING AND IF THEY CAN EVEN GET IT.

Shop Supply Guru · Sep 23, 2020

Hardplates said:
Sounds too much like work

That's the reason I'm in still business

just text me I will do it for you. It's hard for a lot of guys who are busy wearing three hats to figure out a bunch of different manufacturer nomenclature and website since many are so different.

In terms of manufacturer support go with the manufacturer where the rep will be responsive. It's better to have the 5th or 20th most popular indeaxable tool line in your shop with good support then have the world leader who sends your phone call straight to voicemail.

ChipSplitter · Sep 23, 2020

TeachMePlease said:
Sandvik's website really isn't that bad, AS LONG AS you start with some idea of the nomenclature on what you want. For example, google tells me a Coro 870 is an insert drill. If you're looking for the insert, you must already know what the drill body part number is, right? It's printed right on it. Just search for the drill body. Then go to matching inserts. From there you can narrow it down by corner radius, grade, etc...

Oh.

My.

Goodness.

Gracious.

You're kidding, right...??? :eek:

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