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Face mills?

gundog

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 31, 2004
Location
Southwest Washington USA
I am looking for a face mill but I really don't know which is best for my application. 45* or 90* 2" or 3"? I will be surfacing 6061 extrusion with no shoulders for now. I want to be able to get a nice surface finish I have a cat 40 holder for my machine that came with other tooling when I bought the machine. The holder is a Big Kaiser with a 1" arbor my machine a Sharp 2416 with a 10 HP spindle is what I will be using it in. Why 45* or 90* what does one do the other doesn't? I can understand a 90* could be used up against a wall feature does one produce a better finish than the other? Does the 45* remove more material faster?

Sorry for the dumb questions. I tried searching for face mill but the results were all over the place and I found no direct discussions for face mills.
 
I finish aluminum here with a 4" Ingersol 45* cutter with 8 inserts. I really like it as they have a sharp insert that's made for aluminum and it lasts a long time. The inserts also have 8 corners, which is great.

I think what you really should be doing is getting a rep out from one of the tooling companies. I have an Ingersol guy that I really like, so I use a lot of their stuff because I like the rep. I can call him and tell him what I'm looking for and he'll order in brand new test tools to try whatever I want. If I like it, I can buy it but I don't have to.
 
There is a good discussion about the application of different facemill types here: Face milling

It's from sandvik but not specific to their tools.

I have a 45 degree 2.5" diameter face mill from maritool that I really like for general facing in common ferrous and non-ferrous materials. My understanding is that the 45 degree angle balances radial and axial loads on the spindle and creates a chip thinning effect. Both of these charateristics allow higher material removal rates compared to a 90 degree facemill.
 
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We’re mainly a Sandvik shop and use an R245 as our general purpose facemill. Lately though we’ve started switching over to a Mitusibishi AXD4000 in 2” for our non-ferrous applications. It’s a 90* shouldermill unlike the 45* lead on the R245 but is overall the more useful tool for us.
 
If your only taking .050 or .100" off we used to use fly cutters and a cheap version uses a single high speed lathe tool, easy to grind and will leave a gleaming finish. If you are going to take a lot of material off a custom cutter with 2 or 4 carbide teeth was used, either one is ran at a high RPM to do the work.
Dan
 
If your only taking .050 or .100" off we used to use fly cutters and a cheap version uses a single high speed lathe tool, easy to grind and will leave a gleaming finish. If you are going to take a lot of material off a custom cutter with 2 or 4 carbide teeth was used, either one is ran at a high RPM to do the work.
Dan

Fly cutters have no place in a modern shop.
 
We have a few different cutters, 1.25” 45* 3 insert that is good for general use, a few other inserted 45* and one 90*. By far the 45*s run better, smoother and I saw a different surface finish but that could be a variety of things, cutting on a 40 taper box way machine. We use it for just about everything. Stainless, cold roll, hot roll, tool steel, aluminum, brass, really everything.

Every time I use a 3”90* it will stall the spindle and break inserts. Never had it happen with the 45*


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I have always found that a 45 degree face mill with a polished insert and aggressive lead angle to produce the best surface finish in aluminum. I reserve the 90 degree face mills for mild steel. The only exception is the Ripper and Shear Hog family of face mills. Those are 90 degrees and leave a reasonable surface finish in aluminum.
 
I agree with G00 Proto on this: my go-to on non-ferrous materials is a 2.5", 4-insert, wicked positive rake-angle polished carbide inserts with a slight wiper.

PM
 
Head over to Youtube and you'll find a bunch of great videos from Sandvik on selecting and operating face mills. Including the what's up with the different lead angles. Surprised you didn't run into them already in your search.

With your available horsepower, I'd say a 3" is going to be your max diameter. Plus a 3" typically fits a one inch arbor anyway. Sure you can go bigger if cutting just skim cuts, but if it's ever used for taking down stock in a hurry, your horsepower will get chewed up pretty darn fast with a 3" cutter. Like some others have said, I think you're going to find the 45 deg lead is going to be your best. They do come with very high positive geometry which is great for finishes and reducing power requirements, but have an inherent tendency to want to pull the stock off the table, so they're not good at all with unsupported thin-ish sections. The other thing to consider is insert pocket count. Sure the more the merrier when it comes to feed rate, but the more inserts, the more power needed, and the potential for poorer surface finish due to minute variations in installed insert height. Not sure if running a wiper insert will completely negate that fact as I've not used them.

Until a person gets experience using a cutter diameter that is at the high end of a machines torque/power curve, or really... face mills in general, it will be wise to calculate HP requirements for the cut you're planning on taking. Stalling a spindle is no fun, and trashing even a single pocket can leave a very expensive face mill practically useless. Or certainly less useful.

Dave
 
I was going to order the Maritool 2.5" 45* face mill but they do not list an insert designed for aluminum. I don't know much about inserts but I think they sell inserts just for cutting aluminum. I contacted my tool supplier and he could not find an insert for that cutter for aluminum. I guess I need to look at other options. The insert is listed as SEHW1204AFTN or similar Insert size is .5 inches square X .187 thick X 20 deg side clearance X .218 hole. Can I get an aluminum specific insert from another source for this cutter?

I chose the Maritool due to price and Maritool having a decent reputation. I found one made by Glacern for about the same cost and they do list an aluminum specific insert for it.

My tool supplier has a 3" for a little more but I wanted to stay smaller 2" or 2.5" and since it will only see occasional use I really don't want to sink a lot of money into this tool.

Wow Glacern wants $159 for a 10 pack of inserts is that normal? The inserts for Maritool were like $11 but they don't list them for
aluminum.

I called Maritool and got it figured out they do have aluminum specific inserts they are about $15.
 
I was going to order the Maritool 2.5" 45* face mill but they do not list an insert designed for aluminum. I don't know much about inserts but I think they sell inserts just for cutting aluminum. I contacted my tool supplier and he could not find an insert for that cutter for aluminum. I guess I need to look at other options. The insert is listed as SEHW1204AFTN or similar Insert size is .5 inches square X .187 thick X 20 deg side clearance X .218 hole. Can I get an aluminum specific insert from another source for this cutter?

I chose the Maritool due to price and Maritool having a decent reputation. I found one made by Glacern for about the same cost and they do list an aluminum specific insert for it.

My tool supplier has a 3" for a little more but I wanted to stay smaller 2" or 2.5" and since it will only see occasional use I really don't want to sink a lot of money into this tool.

Wow Glacern wants $159 for a 10 pack of inserts is that normal? The inserts for Maritool were like $11 but they don't list them for aluminum.

I think this is the one you are looking for. It's not in the title, but it mentions being optimal for aluminum and plastics with a high rake angle and polish.

Milling Insert SEHT1204AFFN-X83 MariTool

I went through the same process about three years ago and ended up with the 90 degree shell mill with aluminum insert, mainly because we needed it to profile as well. That insert I linked with their 45 degree face mill has been praised a lot on here and other forums.

Also, you want you can call or email them. Frank has gotten back to me in 30 minutes with a fantastic and detailed response when I had questions.
 
I was going to order the Maritool 2.5" 45* face mill but they do not list an insert designed for aluminum. I don't know much about inserts but I think they sell inserts just for cutting aluminum. I contacted my tool supplier and he could not find an insert for that cutter for aluminum. I guess I need to look at other options. The insert is listed as SEHW1204AFTN or similar Insert size is .5 inches square X .187 thick X 20 deg side clearance X .218 hole. Can I get an aluminum specific insert from another source for this cutter?

I chose the Maritool due to price and Maritool having a decent reputation. I found one made by Glacern for about the same cost and they do list an aluminum specific insert for it.

My tool supplier has a 3" for a little more but I wanted to stay smaller 2" or 2.5" and since it will only see occasional use I really don't want to sink a lot of money into this tool.

Wow Glacern wants $159 for a 10 pack of inserts is that normal? The inserts for Maritool were like $11 but they don't list them for aluminum.

Sent you a PM ...
 
I was going to order the Maritool 2.5" 45* face mill but they do not list an insert designed for aluminum. I don't know much about inserts but I think they sell inserts just for cutting aluminum. I contacted my tool supplier and he could not find an insert for that cutter for aluminum. I guess I need to look at other options. The insert is listed as SEHW1204AFTN or similar Insert size is .5 inches square X .187 thick X 20 deg side clearance X .218 hole. Can I get an aluminum specific insert from another source for this cutter?

I chose the Maritool due to price and Maritool having a decent reputation. I found one made by Glacern for about the same cost and they do list an aluminum specific insert for it.

My tool supplier has a 3" for a little more but I wanted to stay smaller 2" or 2.5" and since it will only see occasional use I really don't want to sink a lot of money into this tool.

Wow Glacern wants $159 for a 10 pack of inserts is that normal? The inserts for Maritool were like $11 but they don't list them for
aluminum.

I called Maritool and got it figured out they do have aluminum specific inserts they are about $15.

I have the 3.15" 45 degree face mill from Maritool and have been very happy with it. To pick the size of face mill, I took the simple route: I called them and asked which one I should buy for my machine.

I just used the aluminum specific inserts for the first time, and, aside from one operator error, have performed beautifully. They throw a nice stream of chips and leave a good surface finish.
 
Can confirm the SEHT1204AFFN-X83 inserts work excellent on aluminium (also on delrin, bronze and even hardwood)
 
and trashing even a single pocket can leave a very expensive face mill practically useless. Or certainly less useful.

Dave

If you can, I highly suggest paying a few extra dollars up front and getting
a facemill with carbide seats. I've been running one I got from Curtis about
8 or 9 years ago, and its taking some beatings... The seats chip or on rare
occasion actually break when something bad happens.. Most of the time you
can just rotate them.. I think I'm on my 3rd set of seats and I use that
facemill ALL the time. Without the carbide seats I probably would be on
my 4th or 5th facemill over all these years.

If you don't want to go that route, here is the next best thing. Its only
on the old school 45s, but.. Better than nothing.

A LATHEINSERTS.COM EXCLUSIVE! ALL 45 DEGREE FACE MILLS COME
WITH A FREE 2 YEAR REPLACEMENT WARRANTY. YES, IT EVEN COVERS
DROPPED TOOLS, CRASHES, AND YOUR OCCASIONAL ATTEMPT TO MILL A
KURT VISE. NO QUESTIONS ASKED. SIMPLY EMAIL ME FOR A RETURN
NUMBER, SEND IN YOUR TOOL, AND RECEIVE A NEW ONE. WARRANTY
COVERS ONE REPLACEMENT CLAIM PER PURCHASE. (A $12.95 SHIPPING
AND HANDLING CHARGE APPLIES TO REPLACEMENT CUTTERS)

FACE MILLS
 
Thanks for the info Bob. Only just recently have I seen the carbide pocket backup type face mills. Didn't cross my mind that they could save a tool from crashes as you suggest.

Those face mills you mention really have the Chineesium look and price point to them. The others on your linked website don't have the same guarantee but are made in South Korea and appear to be a little better quality. Seems there's only two choices of insert grades so that scares me off just a little, but the price is right. I have a trashed 3" SECO Quatro 12 that sings to the tune of $700.00 without inserts. That's not what I paid 10 years ago when I got it, as it came in one of their packages deals, but that's what the replacement cost is. At any rate, thanks for steering me to another option.

Dave
 
I have quite a few customers that cut aluminum. A really nice option is the button cutters from Walter. The inserts are pretty cheap and the round inserts leave a nice finish. Plus depending on your depth of cut you can get a lot of edges out of one insert.
 








 
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