Fadal 4020 Suddenly Dropped tool holder
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  1. #1
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    Default Fadal 4020 Suddenly Dropped tool holder

    Hello,

    I'm new to this forum, but I ran into an issue with my 2006 fadal 4020 and need some assistance repairing it. The tools was between runs and at an idle. I was changing fixtures and all of a sudden the tool holder (with tool) fell out of the spindle and onto the table. Noticed the drawbar solenoid is leaking a lot of air from the sintered metal filter. Spindle retention is open while air is attached and closed without air to the machine. Drawbar solenoid stops leaking air when I push the Tool in/out button. Since the issue started, pushing the Tool in/out button does not operate the retention mechanism in the spindle anymore.

    Any assistance would be appreciated.

    Don

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    Update: We are getting air FROM the machine into the pneumatic directional valve (Backside of the valve manifold) making the valve bypass this air, for some reason.

    Any ideas why ?

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    Because the 2 cylinders under the spindle cover that switches from low to high gear are bad and out of oil is usually why the valve on the back of the machine leaks air. Why it dropped a tool is another deal the belville washers are probably shot. The machine doesn’t even need air to hold a tool the Bellville washers and floater hold the tool by spring pressure


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    Thanks for the reply D..

    Air leaks with all power off to the machine, but the retention mechanism is in the holding position. With the power on, the retention mechanism stays open and air is coming from the center of the spindle as it would when it has released a tool, kinda like it is stuck in release mode.

    We unhooked the line this valve is supposed to be giving air to and found it already has high volume and probably pressure air coming out of it for some reason. This air, coming from the wrong direction, seems to be causing the valve to over pressure and leak,

    Does that info help ?

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    Unhook the power to that Selonoid and see if the air stops if not unhook air to selonoid does the air stop then


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    Yes air still leaks with the main power blade switch in OFF position.

    When I remove the OUTPUT air line for that valve while the machine and air are ON, the solenoid does not leak from its OUTPUT port, BUT the line I disconnected is blowing hard air that I cannot stop with my thumb over it.

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    Had the mac valves go bad in the back of the machine before, but they never dropped a tool. That doesnt mean thats its not the mac valve as you shoudlnt be leaking air.
    quick fix is disconnect the air, turn power off pull off the mac valve think its 3rd one. pull the wires off. take valve apart toss it in mineral spirits. If you have a ultrasonic cleaner drop the part in there with alcohol dont put the rubber gaskets in there or the coil. just the valve body

    I would check the valve on the head of the machine that is attached to the plate that pushes your draw bar. there is a cup washer in there. theres a cup washer in there that goes bad. the cup washer is .25 cent but you have to find one, good luck with that so just order a new valve they are cheap.

    Mac vavles go bad all the time always when you need the machine, its alwasy best to have one or 2 extras.

    Russ may have some here in the Valley ( KTR or something like that he repairs the fadals in AZ) if he doesnt he can get you one. the next day.

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    I'll check out the cup washer issue.

    I already rebuilt that valve - It was very clean and found no issues with it.

    I think the key is that the output of that valve is getting constant air into OUTPUT side of the valve. The line should not have any pressurized air in it until the valve opens and gives it air, so why does it have constant air ? Did something blow downstream that is bleeding air into this line ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SavannaRail View Post
    I'll check out the cup washer issue.

    I already rebuilt that valve - It was very clean and found no issues with it.

    I think the key is that the output of that valve is getting constant air into OUTPUT side of the valve. The line should not have any pressurized air in it until the valve opens and gives it air, so why does it have constant air ? Did something blow downstream that is bleeding air into this line ?
    Look at the cup washer under a magnifine glass, you might see a small tear on the top. Mine had one couldnt even tell.

    contant air is because a valve is always on. usually you have issues with the high and low gear change always being on. rarely Ive seen the tool problem.
    now assuming what your saying is whats happening other things to look at are the electonics side. the mag switchs mainly
    , it could be as simple as a relay( they dont go bad often , but they get dirty and need to be cleaned. its a little switch on the board just to the right of the transformer. youll seems some small 1/2" wide by 2" long boards plugged in. you can switch them and see if you still have an issue.(one way to tell)
    the coolant mist from the fans always gum those up. usually on the back of the main board they plug into. but also the relay boards as well.
    they were part number ELE-OO70 yours is a newer mill so I think you have the solid state(black covered ones) ones, the ones in the older machines where just a open green pc card with some electronics on them. there on the main board to the right of the transformer and at the very bottom of the cabinet.

    the air on all the time might be a combination of a few things as well, Like I said I dont ever remember any of my fadals dropping tools just not saying it couldnt happen. the low and high gear change might be the cause of that. as that might be another problem.

    you said you rebuilt that valve WHY? what was going on?
    did you recently do any work to the machine and valves then have the problem? if you did again why were you and what was going on.

    the mac valves go bad alot and fast if you dont have a dryer in your air system and I dont mean a paper one I mean a real one, if you ever spit out water those mack valves will fail.
    was the machine running good than just drop a tool?
    did you hit a button and it stuck or did it just drop all by itself?
    reason I ask is if it dropped by itself that usually means you had made electrical contact somehow some way to drop the tool(but not always) why I say also look at the relay chips ELE-OO70 and make sure everything is clean.

    so to clean them do like what I said above.
    while the air system in a fadal looks like a cluster fuck its pretty darn simple to figure out.

    oh yeah one other thing, check to make sure your draw bar plate is going back up, if its not that is a problem that is also a problem with the valve that has the cup washer in it.


    to check mack valve you can push the little plunger in (on the right side) and let it go.
    find out the valve that is seeping air follow the wires to the board that will tell you what its for.
    sorry my reply is scattered all over the place, was looking for better pics and then something else would pop into my mind.

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    I couldnt find the list of what valve did what, I got them on one of my pcs I guess not here at home, also have some pics of the board and relays and where each valve goes. I'll get them tomorrow sometime.

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    Appreciate the info Delw.

    I found that the Raptor Valve is bad.

    I ordered it and I'll post either way if that fixes the issue.

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    I replaced the Raptor valve and that fixed the issue. Thanks for the assistance everyone.


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