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fadal all axis problem

I know little about Fadal mills, but given the age I'd be looking for a shorted wiring harness, or any other source of possible signal mixing. Clean the boards thoroughly with an electronics-safe solution? Make sure all conductive paths are clean from contaminants.
 
i cleaned all the boards with dielectric solution i will swap the motors to another machine next sunday, i'm not sure how to remove the wire harness, could 1 shorted harness affect all 3 axis? thanks!
 
all axis do the same thing, i swapped all the axis cards and amplifiers form a working machine and it remains the same, i also swapped the power board but nothing, the strangest thing is that when you move the x axis the y axis moves too, any ideas?

A little more info please...

ALL axis are doing "that" when you move a single axis?

In the video, what are you doing with the handwheel? And when does it start that
*SHUDDER*?


From your bit of info, I'm going to make an attempt to explain what I think it is..

DC drives.. You have an encoder that tells the machine WHERE the motor is and you
have a TachoGenerator (or some such non-sense).. The TachoGenerator tells the control
how fast, and in what direction the motors are turning. The TG uses +12 and -12v, and
as far as I can tell, its the ONLY thing in the machine that uses -12v.

I'm trying to remember exactly how this works.. But the TG creates a voltage, so many
volts per rpms, positive one way, negative the other way.. If you pull either the +12
or -12 off, you get a runaway... The control then thinks the motor is going a million
miles an hour one way, and it pours on the power to counteract that movement(that isn't
actually happening) and you get a runaway..

If you have a dead spot on the TG, when you hit that dead spot, all of a sudden the control
sees that the axis is taking off, and it will try and counteract that, and then it hits a good
spot on the TG, and realizes "Woops" too far, and reverse and come back to the dead spot, overshoot,
rinse and repeat and you end up with a NASTY VIOLENT oscillation... My first instinct is that
is what I'm seeing as your motor is walking across the floor.

If something is pulling down your -12v, it will make all your axis do stupid shit at the same time.
If it was the +12v, the machine would shut down, since +12v is used for many things, as is +5v.

From what I can see, I would be chasing the -12 volts.

There are capacitors on the axis control cards(1010) and a few of the other ones that bridge the
+12 and -12. On the boards I have here, capacitor C20, the second one up from the bottom
as the board sits in the machine, and on the inside, near where the board plugs into the machine.
If you need to start chasing things, that info might help.

Don't ask how I know this, but If ONE of those capacitors has a
short, the machine will be FINE, until you try to power up the motors, and then
you get a run away... For some reason, it only draws down the -12v, and the +12v
is fine.

IF one of those capacitors has an intermittent short..???? <-- this is just a thought..

But I would concentrate on the -12v from what I can see.
 
Thanks for the help,we have another working machine, i tested the axis cards, clock card and amplifiers from it to this one with the same results, and the ones from the non working machine work fine on the other one, i didn't test the cpu card because i didn't think it would make a difference but i'm no expert, also, i swapped the power supply and both work on the good machine but not on the faulty one, the only thing left to do is swap the motors to the good machine but i have to wait until sunday to stop using it, if one of the wire harness is bad could it cause this problem? thanks!

I forgot to mention it does that on all axis when jogging for cold start, but i can't get it to home because it faults out, when i did get it to home and tested some code it does it too. i jog .010" on either direction up to a point where id seems it doesn't move all the way to .010" and then stutters and faults out. sometimes when joging the y axis the x axis moves as well. :eek:
 
If ALL the axis start moving, then I'm going to bet my left nut, that you are losing the -12V
intermittently. There is nothing else that I can think of that would make all of your
axis move, except for the +12v doing odd things, but then the machine would simply shut down.

If you don't think the -12v can make all the axis move at once, shut your machine down, unhook the
-12v up near the power supply. PUSH IN the e-stop, now fire your machine up. Its going to
tell you to clear the e-stop, and the second you do, all 3 axis will run away.. If your lucky
it will error out after it moves an inch or 2.. If you aren't lucky all 3 axis will run full
bore into a hard stop, then it will error out.

If the machine is just sitting with the amplifiers powered up, its fine???

It only wigs out on you when you try to move an axis? If it only goes nuts when
you try to move a particular axis, I would concentrate on that.. A short somewhere
in the end of the motor near the encoder and tachogenerator.

±12v from the tachogenerator also goes through the amplifier boards, those are a heck
of lot easier to swap machine to machine than the motors are.

Something else quick to check (and its most likely not the problem) the -12v goes into
the card cage way down at the bottom, you'd never see it unless you were down on your
knees. Make sure that's tight.

When you do find the problem, its going to be something so stupid, you are going to want to
smack yourself.
 
If ALL the axis start moving, then I'm going to bet my left nut, that you are losing the -12V
intermittently. There is nothing else that I can think of that would make all of your
axis move, except for the +12v doing odd things, but then the machine would simply shut down.

If you don't think the -12v can make all the axis move at once, shut your machine down, unhook the
-12v up near the power supply. PUSH IN the e-stop, now fire your machine up. Its going to
tell you to clear the e-stop, and the second you do, all 3 axis will run away.. If your lucky
it will error out after it moves an inch or 2.. If you aren't lucky all 3 axis will run full
bore into a hard stop, then it will error out.

If the machine is just sitting with the amplifiers powered up, its fine???

It only wigs out on you when you try to move an axis? If it only goes nuts when
you try to move a particular axis, I would concentrate on that.. A short somewhere
in the end of the motor near the encoder and tachogenerator.

±12v from the tachogenerator also goes through the amplifier boards, those are a heck
of lot easier to swap machine to machine than the motors are.

Something else quick to check (and its most likely not the problem) the -12v goes into
the card cage way down at the bottom, you'd never see it unless you were down on your
knees. Make sure that's tight.

When you do find the problem, its going to be something so stupid, you are going to want to
smack yourself.

I'm gonna try disconnecting the cable and powering up now, all axis are crazy, that's why i'm so confused on what's causing it, yes the machine powered on and it's fine until i move an axis, then it faults out


unplugged the cable and they all ran away, checked the -12 at the bottom of the cage but it's tightly secure, voltage at the power supply is -12.14 and at the bottom of the cage is -12.16 there probably is something wrong with it. i had a co worker jog the machine while i checked voltages but i didn't change as it faulted, what else could it be?
 
UPDATE.

Yesterday a new tech guy came to check it out, when we talked on the phone he thought i was trolling him lol, but no, he said he's said he never saw something like it, it's probably a faulty drive but he needs to check it out and it will probably be better to just get a new machine.
 
Your video shows it is very obvious it is a motor issue, tuning or resolver main board issue on the 1600 backpanel board (if its a 1993 or newer), a bad power supply to the CPU cards or a breaker or estop circuit bleeding. A new machine is what the tech said I would tell him he should get a new job
 
I still say its the -12V.. Its the ONLY thing that would cause your issue on all axis..

You're getting an oscillation... That tells me whatever the problem is, its not constant.
That -12v drops for even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of second. The control will
respond, and your multi-meter isn't going to see it.

I'm not an electrical genius, I know JUST ENOUGH to be dangerous.. But I believe what
you need is an oscilloscope, a tech that is worth a shit should have had one.

You've already done the cards. Have you tried swapping the motors yet??

As for re-wiring.. I'd make a test cable first before you start yanking harnesses out. Its not that
many wires.

I still say that when you find the problem, its going to be something STUPID.. Really really stupid,
but hard to find.
 
I have a fadal 3016 with fault on x,y&z, error 18, something is pulling my t820 transformer down on the 16a, 16b, 16c , 16b is got 70v instead of 120v, if I cut the breakers off to 16a,b,c I get 120v
 
UPDATE!!!

This machine was dead for a long time and i started to use it as spare parts, a few weeks ago all of our machines died, 1 has a damaged y axis ballscrew, we're going to repair or get a new one, another machine died after a power failure during a storm (machines aren't properly grounded) after inspection i found that the mechanical relays, the ones that look like icecubes were damaged, i can't get a fast replacement so i opened them up and sanded them and now they work great, that machine is working now, so i did the same on this machine and wired the motors again to try it, but i know the spindle drive is dead because i had to take off this one from it to fix another machine. upon power up only the x axis faulted and i get a cycling error on screen, i swapped the amp for y axis and the fault followed the amp, the thing is i know the amps work fine because i tested all cards, amps and motors on another machine, then i changed a solid relay k20 for one of the bare green ones (it had one of the black sealed ones) and all amps are good! i keep getting this message on screen but pressing jog doesn't reset it or pressing the red button on the cpu card. could the faulty spindle drive cause this? wouldn't i just get a spindle fault error and still be able to reset and jog? thanks for reading if you made it this far, more pictures in comments

IMG_20190524_085840.jpgIMG_20190524_085854.jpgIMG_20190524_085900.jpg
 








 
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