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FADAL resetting/restarting when going to auto mode

Seaman

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Location
Ronceverte, WV
I've owned FADAL's for more than a decade and haven't experienced this yet, hope someone can help me out.

Issue: Perform normal cold start, go to part home position and the machine doesn't move and goes into restart. CS menu comes back up. This is going to be difficult to walk through, but I'll try to do a thorough description. After the fault, if you go straight into jog mode, there is a following error building up. No movement though. If you move the axis, it jumps and then moves. So the commanded move is processing in the CPU, but the axis isn't moving. This is even after a reboot. Swapped CPU board, program module, removed expanded memory, installed new power supply, re-seated all boards, confirmed all voltages. Nothing has changed.

Here's the kicker, after the machine warms up, or runs for some time, it operates just fine. If you run the machine for a good day, it will fire right up the next morning. Let it sit a week, then it won't start up for 10-15 minutes of jacking around. It's like something is needing a recharge to function properly. Only thing I've experienced is the battery on the CPU board. This one is less than 3 yrs old and still reading 3.6v. Is there anything else in the drive circuitry that can loose a charge during idle time that would prevent it from working immediately?

In short, all the drives boot up, can CS the mill, and operate manually. It won't go into automatic operation until it "warms" up. This has my factory trained FADAL tech baffled too.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Dave
 
Did you buy that new fancy power supply? Or did you just grab the cheapest
PC POS you could find on New Egg.. I used to love the PC power supplies.
Then I got one machine that would just NOT work properly on a PC power supply.

Are all axis sitting and then jumping when trying to jog??

Voltages coming from the transformer OK?

Tighten everything up from the switch box all
the way back to the panel?

Swap all the relays? You can usually pull the coolant ones and check with those.

Have you tried jumping the e-stop circuit, there is a bunch of stuff along that
that can do weird stuff.. I *think* its F12 to F14, its in the manual, it might
even be in the trouble shooting chart.

If she's happy when she's warm, maybe try a drop light and a big desiccant bag in the
cabinet over the weekend.

Have you picked up the phone and tried FadalCNC and ITS tech support? It might be
something they've seen.

Those are the things that I would check, given the info.. I don't know if it was
any help?

thinking some more, if its dropping out and then coming right back up, your power supply
is losing power.. Is that because of a massive draw, or is something shutting off??
Maybe try running the power supply off of a separate 120v line.

Maybe try changing out all the low voltage fuses.. An old bandit, many years ago,
kept dropping out.. It was a fuse, those stupid little glass ones. The filament
had become un-soldered in one end, and most of the time it was connected, and then
it wouldn't be.. Absolute pure luck that I found that.
 
Thanks Bob for the reply.

Yes fancy new PS from ITS.

Looks like it's going to be some hunting and pecking to see whats acting up. Yes it is in an unconditioned shop, but none of the other mills including this one exhibited this behavior before.

I appreciate your insight.

Dave
 
thinking about this some more...

Something is really drawing voltage down (obviously), otherwise the machine wouldn't try restarting itself.
However its not pulling enough voltage that the relay on the power supply is kicking out..

I'm trying to think what would trigger a voltage drop when you put the machine into auto, and I
can't think of anything.

The big following errors and not moving..... Have you checked to make sure your ballscrews are
all moving freely??

If you could track your voltages, ALL of them (or at least maybe one at a time).. That could at
least point you in a direction.
 
Update: Yesterday spent some time getting the incoming AC voltage a bit more balanced from the transformer. Machine voltages agree with the trouble shooting chart in manual. No change. Replaced all glass fuses on power distribution board, 1100, that were control related and the overall board supply fuse. Machine fired up and ran the first time! Rebooted three more times and golden.


Update2: This morning no dice. Same issue.

Seems like it is on the power distribution board, so I'll go through the relays on it today.

Dave
 
Did you ever figure this out? My 4020 is having the same issue, except it takes an hour or two to get back to starting consistently.

Power supply checks out, voltages are correct. Incoming taps correct etc. I’ll try replacing all fuses, but I think the issue is either:

1. improper grounding
2. Hall effect sensor on spindle
3. low voltages on amp chassis (c/x/y/z errors all simultaneous)
 
A AC ripple or DC ripple will halt a controller. This has to do with the power supply. You did everything right, CPU, Extended memory off, maybe reinitialize. Then its down to the DC power supply.
 
try swapping the ice cubes around and see if the problem
Did you ever figure this out? My 4020 is having the same issue, except it takes an hour or two to get back to starting consistently.

Power supply checks out, voltages are correct. Incoming taps correct etc. I’ll try replacing all fuses, but I think the issue is either:

1. improper grounding
2. Hall effect sensor on spindle
3. low voltages on amp chassis (c/x/y/z errors all simultaneous)
when the program ends does it just hang out at the end? or does it get to some other point?
I'm wondering if the m2 or m30 depending on mode is getting hit and the relay isn't responding.
 
try swapping the ice cubes around and see if the problem

when the program ends does it just hang out at the end? or does it get to some other point?
I'm wondering if the m2 or m30 depending on mode is getting hit and the relay isn't responding.

It hangs/resets like so:

Power up machine, CS axes.
Start a warm up, type in M4 S2000 or what have you, hit Start, machine dumps air valve and resets back to the FADAL screen.

C axis controller fault
Z axis controller fault
X axis controller fault
Y axis controller fault

Wait 2 secs axis are being reset…

Lose your positions, curse the machine, shut it down, have a beer.
 
It hangs/resets like so:

Power up machine, CS axes.
Start a warm up, type in M4 S2000 or what have you, hit Start, machine dumps air valve and resets back to the FADAL screen.

C axis controller fault
Z axis controller fault
X axis controller fault
Y axis controller fault

Wait 2 secs axis are being reset…

Lose your positions, curse the machine, shut it down, have a beer.
I'm wondering if something in the spindle drive and or motor has an issue. might try megging the motor or put a volt meter on drive and have someone hit start and see if the voltage nose dives.
 
I'm wondering if something in the spindle drive and or motor has an issue. might try megging the motor or put a volt meter on drive and have someone hit start and see if the voltage nose dives.

That’s what I was thinking as well, so checked the settings on the spindle drive. They were wrong, re-set to correct values, machine still does it. New spindle drive last year.

Further, if you do a command that does not involve the spindle like a “Move to Fixture Offset”, it’ll reset itself when you hit Start from “Waiting”. I’m not convinced it’s spindle necessarily. Some voltage that’s common to the spindle drive and the axis amps may be taking a nose dive.
 
id be wondering if it was like something like my DRO, had a bad capacitor in it but would only malfunction when cold below 5C or about 40F. Took electronics cold spray and found the dead cap when everything else was warm. Replaced it and it was golden, was part of my power feed/read circuit. could be any one of many caps in the supply or drives, guessing supply due to it jumping but normally they will throw a voltage alarm.
 
yes, I did resolve it.
It was one of the ice cube relays on the power board in the spindle drive cabinet. Not sure the number of the relay.

I simple pulled them out and reseated them and it would work properly. Then it wouldn't, so replaced all relays. Only 7 of them I think. It has worked fine since that time.

Dave
 
does it jog around?

Yes, you can operate the spindle manually and jog the axes manually.

It happens when you do anything that requires hitting START while the machine is “waiting…”. You hit start and it hangs then resets. Could be executing a program, executing an MDI command, moving to a stored fixture location.

Does not appear to be spindle related. Swapped around all the ice cube relays and it took a while after that but the control hung at one point.
 
Yes, you can operate the spindle manually and jog the axes manually.

It happens when you do anything that requires hitting START while the machine is “waiting…”. You hit start and it hangs then resets. Could be executing a program, executing an MDI command, moving to a stored fixture location.

Does not appear to be spindle related. Swapped around all the ice cube relays and it took a while after that but the control hung at one point.

not clear, did it run auto for a while after swapping the ice cubes, then hung? and at what point did it hang up?
ice cubes are cheap. but make sure you replace the specified relays into there specific spots. We had a 15x that would randomly grab the wrong tool. The fadal techs that came in rewired it but also noticed that the relays were incorrect. there are a higher rated amp and a lower rated. He said if you put the high rated into the low, you can get a leakage. told him to just replace everything. machine has been running fine since, not sure if the wiring or relays.

but, still thinking the p/s has issues. have you monitored the ps for drops when you hit cycle start?
 








 
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