Fadal Speeds and feeds Generic templates
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  1. #1
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    Default Fadal Speeds and feeds Generic templates

    Hoping Bobw and a few other fadal owners might chime in.
    I'm a home shop guy but have a VMC15 couple prototrak mills and a couple Mori lathes. I already have a day job and a part time job which aren't machining but still try to do some machining on the side. One of my problems is feeling like its my first day every time I get back to the machines.

    Wondered if I could get some basic speed, feed, WOC, and DOC, recipes you feel like the fadals (specifically the linear way fadals if possible) are happy with. Would be really nice if you'd list the brand and type of cutter you like for the application too (i.e. # of flutes, variable pitch, coatings) so I can compare it to what I'm using.

    I mostly only used solid carbide for endmills.
    I've never attempted to use a facemill in the fadal yet. (Anyone still use flycutters just for surfacing still?)

    Hoping for something like this:

    Mild Steel (1080)
    3/4 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC: (Is 3/4" more than a VMC can effectively utilize?)
    1/2 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    1/4 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    1/8 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    Facemill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:

    Finish pass SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC: Looking for happy numbers that leave nice finishes after removing material at the above parameters. (Is there a rule of thumb here?)


    Alloy steel (4140)

    3/4 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    1/2 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    1/4 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    1/8 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    Facemill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:

    Finish pass SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    Aluminum (6061)
    3/4 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    1/2 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    1/4 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    1/8 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    Facemill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:

    Finish pass SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:

    304 stainless
    3/4 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    1/2 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    1/4 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    1/8 endmill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:
    Facemill SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC:

    Finish pass SFM: FPT: DOC: WOC: Looking for happy numbers that leave nice finishes

  2. #2
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    I don’t own a Fadal but I highly recommend that you check out the FSWizard app.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Attebery View Post
    I don’t own a Fadal but I highly recommend that you check out the FSWizard app.
    Thanks!

    I do have that on my phone and used it. Worked pretty well actually. The one thing that it doesn't do well is account for what machine your running it in.

    Example .750 niagra endmill sounded way better backed way off than at the recommended parameters. Pretty sure it was a machine rigidity issue. Probably would have been better off with a .5".

    Was using the .750 so that I could take a clean-up pass and cover the whole bottoms surface of a shelf on the final pass. In hindsight, Probably should have used the 1/2" for roughing and used the 3/4" for the finish pass. Then again maybe I'm just not pushing the 3/4" correctly for the VMC15 to be happy.

    If its useful i'll go update the above parameter results from FSWizard and then maybe I can ask the easier question of which of these is more than your fadal is happy with.


    I suppose its worth noting that I mostly use Fusion 360 and their adaptive strategy for roughing so fairly high DOC with around %20 WOC. The .750 was just loud (Hammering)backing it off dulled the sound making it feel less destructive.

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    Fadal st torque machines will not even come close to handling a 3/4 emill ..3/4 deep in aluminum at any decent feedrate over 20ipm. The high torque is a different story.

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    Happy Numbers will come from the tool maker of that tool, after you adjust it to your type of cutting, rigidity for your situation. once you are "HAPPY" with it then you have Your HAPPY" number, A bonus point if you can get a "HAPPY" ending after you find your "HAPPY" number.

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    My 'Happy Numbers' usually start with the CNC Cookbook. I like their G-Wizzard calculator which gives a nice tooling selection and speed and feed values with the ability to go from Conservative to Aggressive with bit deflection information which does effect your final finish and tool life.

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    A VMC15 is a fairly lightweight machine, it is made from weldments, and has fairly wimpy liner
    ways..

    There is nothing wrong with linear ways, and they can be extremely rigid if done right..

    A VMC15.. They aren't exactly done right..

    When I got my VMC15, I tossed in a 3 inch facemill and *TRIED* to run it like I do in my
    4020s.. That was a mistake.. A BIG mistake.. Same thing trying to hog with a 1/2",
    really needed to back it down.

    Cuts you can't even hear in the box way machines, in the VMC15, it sounds like you are driving
    a Yugo down a washboarded dirt road.

    When I say "turn it down", I don't mean just dial back the feed, you still need to maintain
    a proper chipload, not a HEAVY chip, but you do have to make sure its still cutting.. Just
    turning the feed way down is about the worst thing you can do to cutter life...

    If you can slot on a heavier machine at .350 DOC, on the lighter machine you may have to
    run at .150.. With my 3" lead angle facemill, my sweet spot on a mild steel or annealed
    alloy steel is about .070 DOC, and .014 a tooth feed. On the VMC15, its about .040DOC and
    .004 per tooth, and it still doesn't sound great, where as on the bigger machines its just
    nice beautiful hum and chips hitting the enclosure.

    If you haven't yet.. Replace your drawbar floater and bellevilles. It'll cost you about $100
    and is one of the reasons Fadal's get a bad reputation.. The bellevilles break and the floater
    gets damaged, and all of sudden, the machine can't take a cut.. I keep a spare set on the shelf.

    Also, take advantage of the fancy variable helix and flute endmills. They are awesome on a huge
    rigid machine, but where they really shine is on the less rigid machines..

    Smaller endmills, short projections... A 1/2" endmill can take a 20hp cut.. You don't have 20hp..

    A VMC15 is a great little machine, I love mine.. Its just not a hogging machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    Also, take advantage of the fancy variable helix and flute endmills. They are awesome on a huge
    rigid machine, but where they really shine is on the less rigid machines..
    X2. Do not cheap out on endmills. The variable helix / variable flute endmills are absolute game changers compared to standard stuff--even from the same manufacturer.

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    Let me also toss in HSMAdvisor and the Helical Machining Advisor. Both let you adjust for a less rigid machine.

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    CNC cookbook also has a HP variable to set.

    Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk


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