Fadal tool load compensation

Kevinstj · Oct 1, 2020

Hey, Just a quick question .. Has anyone ever used the Tool Load Compensation (G51.2). Just curious if this works or was it a gimmick at the time?
Thanks

Kevinstj · Oct 7, 2020

Wow, Not one person has ever tried this on a Fadal. Maybe I should be the Guinea Pig.

Cole2534 · Oct 7, 2020

I hadn't even noticed it in the manual until you said something.

Kevinstj · Oct 8, 2020

With all the Fadal guys on here I would have thought one person would have tried it or seen it run .

aarongough · Oct 8, 2020

I don't really get the use-case personally... If the spindle load is increasing that much then I don't really want to reduce the feedrate, I want to change the tool! I'd be curious to hear the other side of this...

TheBigLebowski · Oct 8, 2020

I have never used it.

Could it be configured to detect insert failure?

I know on Makinos you can set a parameter to look for tool load spikes. If it spikes this indicates that you may have lost an insert/flute and pauses the program.

Kevinstj · Oct 8, 2020

I was totally curios about this option.. Being a novice, I was wondering .

Hardplates · Oct 8, 2020

Sounds useless unless it can be configured to switch to a spare tool rather than slow down.

I have a machine that has "cutting monitoring" in addition to tool life management. Can swap to a spare tool based off cutting time, load or both. I believe it can monitor the servo loads as well as the spindle. Never played with it and probably never will.

Delw · Oct 8, 2020

I recently seen this in a fadal program from a customers that I used. I asked the guy about it and he said what it does is makes sure the axis doesnt over shoot the start position on a rad, for example when your using really small endmills and need to generate a very tight rad thats a .001-.002 bigger then the endmill. And that your moves are very short, Ie picking out that rad.he said fadals have a tendacy to over shoot in small rads the start points if your using g8.
Basically what I understood was it came to the exact position to start and stop the rad. kinda a more defined precise speed. with out haveing it PAUSE between each move(like running with out a G8 does)
I hope I explained that properly
I'll try to find the program, I ran it with in the last 2 months.

pablo.casiano75 · Oct 8, 2020

Oh wow! We have a Fadal and never knew about this. I’ll be lookin into this now![emoji23] If I try it and works I’ll report back!

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Delw · Oct 8, 2020

pablo.casiano75 said:
Oh wow! We have a Fadal and never knew about this. I’ll be lookin into this now![emoji23] If I try it and works I’ll report back!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

oh it works really well, I'm running a job right now that runs a .125 endmill and needs a .065 rad + or - .005 its .7 deep too. I been fighting this one as its running on the high, and the rads kinda washed out. I had forgot all about that code till I opened this thread earlier. we use multi step downs for parts that are tall like these but you can still see a not so perfect rad in the corner, its in but with this code in there now you can clearly see a almost perfect .065-.067 rad on a comparator with a 20x lens.
one thing to remember when your running cutter comp watched your dia offsets on close tols cause changing your cutter dia will changer your rad dia

Ive had fadals since 92 and never knew about it till a few months ago

TheBigLebowski · Oct 9, 2020

Delw said:
I recently seen this in a fadal program from a customers that I used. I asked the guy about it and he said what it does is makes sure the axis doesnt over shoot the start position on a rad, for example when your using really small endmills and need to generate a very tight rad thats a .001-.002 bigger then the endmill. And that your moves are very short, Ie picking out that rad.he said fadals have a tendacy to over shoot in small rads the start points if your using g8.
Basically what I understood was it came to the exact position to start and stop the rad. kinda a more defined precise speed. with out haveing it PAUSE between each move(like running with out a G8 does)
I hope I explained that properly
I'll try to find the program, I ran it with in the last 2 months.

I believe you are thinking of plain old G51, which gives you further control over the feedramp lengths/times used with G9

Delw · Oct 9, 2020

TheBigLebowski said:
I believe you are thinking of plain old G51, which gives you further control over the feedramp lengths/times used with G9

theres actually a few g51's I screen shotted them for the explaination.

macds · Oct 9, 2020

TheBigLebowski said:
I have never used it.

Could it be configured to detect insert failure?

I know on Makinos you can set a parameter to look for tool load spikes. If it spikes this indicates that you may have lost an insert/flute and pauses the program.

Yes, and thats handy as hell for preventing crashes and larger gouges.

Ive looked into how I could use this in a similar fashion, but I dont think its responsive\\ fine enough on the Fadal

Delw said:
I recently seen this in a fadal program from a customers that I used. I asked the guy about it and he said what it does is makes sure the axis doesnt over shoot the start position on a rad, for example when your using really small endmills and need to generate a very tight rad thats a .001-.002 bigger then the endmill. And that your moves are very short, Ie picking out that rad.he said fadals have a tendacy to over shoot in small rads the start points if your using g8.
Basically what I understood was it came to the exact position to start and stop the rad. kinda a more defined precise speed. with out haveing it PAUSE between each move(like running with out a G8 does)
I hope I explained that properly
I'll try to find the program, I ran it with in the last 2 months.

Very interesting Del.
That might be worth playing around with.
What size cutter are you using it on?

I think the initial idea of this was probably with large face mills programmed with the onboard macros. Say youve got a pocket in the middle of a face... it speeds up to reduce air cut time.

Kevinstj · Oct 9, 2020

Yes, There is several G51 codes...I might just have to try G51.2 (TLC) when I get some spare time and report back .

Delw · Oct 9, 2020

macds said:
Very interesting Del.
That might be worth playing around with.
What size cutter are you using it on?

I think the initial idea of this was probably with large face mills programmed with the onboard macros. Say youve got a pocket in the middle of a face... it speeds up to reduce air cut time.

from my post above

Delw said:
oh it works really well, I'm running a job right now that runs a .125 endmill and needs a .065 rad + or - .005 its .7 deep too. I been fighting this one as its running on the high, and the rads kinda washed out. I had forgot all about that code till I opened this thread earlier. we use multi step downs for parts that are tall like these but you can still see a not so perfect rad in the corner, its in but with this code in there now you can clearly see a almost perfect .065-.067 rad on a comparator with a 20x lens.
one thing to remember when your running cutter comp watched your dia offsets on close tols cause changing your cutter dia will changer your rad dia

Ive had fadals since 92 and never knew about it till a few months ago

The one from around 2 months (when it was showed to me I looked briefly and couldnt find it, I'll look some more over the weekend but that one was a 3/8 endmill running a . 190 max rad if I recall.
Does it help I dont know I think it does but were talking .005 rad on a comparator with a 20x lens and I'm using 1.5x readers on top of that. you know its one of those things hard to check but running a bunch of parts you can see minor finish and minor differences after a while.

Delw · Oct 9, 2020

macds said:
Yes, and thats handy as hell for preventing crashes and larger gouges.

Ive looked into how I could use this in a similar fashion, but I dont think its responsive\\ fine enough on the Fadal

Very interesting Del.
That might be worth playing around with.
What size cutter are you using it on?

I think the initial idea of this was probably with large face mills programmed with the onboard macros. Say youve got a pocket in the middle of a face... it speeds up to reduce air cut time.

You know I been sitting here running a few jobs on the machines and thinking about this, as I couldnt find the program so I am doubting myself( even though I added the g51.2 last night). I did find one program last night that had a M93 in it. (which I never used) read breifly about it here
HSM on a Fadal.

now wondering if I mixed the codes up in my head.

macds · Oct 9, 2020

Yes, Ive been playing around on my machine without m93, and on the right jobs im able to cut @300ipm with 600ipm transitions.

This is an older video that show roughly how I approach it.

Delw · Oct 9, 2020

macds said:
Yes, Ive been playing around on my machine without m93, and on the right jobs im able to cut @300ipm with 600ipm transitions.

This is an older video that show roughly how I approach it.

Thats pretty impressive on a fadal, if you remember you mind explaining where to use the code, have a large size alum job 100 pcs that I would like to try that on.

some of the codes I have never used on the fadal in like 30 years and some are looking really interesting about now.

macds · Oct 9, 2020

No special codes that Im aware of.
Ill get looking through a few nc files though.

I will say, that particular machine (I have 2) has a strange software version.
Im not able to run the same code on my other machine without beating the living shit out of it.
Been trying to figure it out for a couple years now, and best Ive come up with is the software version....

I might make a new post on that, as Id really like to get it figured out.

Fadal tool load compensation

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