Fadal VMC15 ATC only moves CCW
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  1. #1
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    Default Fadal VMC15 ATC only moves CCW

    I've owned this machine for nearly 3-4 years now I think. Hardly ever used it. Done few single tool longer programs with it. Did a couple small parts with a couple tools. But today was going to be my first real part. Couple hours of run time dozen+ tools. Finally going to see what it can do.

    Just got my program finished up and all the tools loaded up and decided I'd cycle through them a bit just to make sure all was well and good. Turns out the machine needs to go both directions with the ATC but will only move CCW.

    Example: Tool 1 in the spindle
    - Call tool 3 (machine will correctly put tool 1 away and go get tool 3)
    - With Tool 3 in the spindle call tool 1. (machine will put tool 3 away and get tool 5)

    So its moving the right number of places it just doesn't realize the turret is only turning 1 way.

    Note the CW and CCW buttons on the keyboard both turn the turret the same way too and that has always been the case.

    Regarding the program I ran in the past with multiple tools $10 says I never reused a tool so it used tool 1,2,3,4,5,6 and never skipped a beat.

    Guess I need to hand load this one. (Probably not a bad Idea anyway for a noob like me)

    How do I fix though? Swapping Relay K5 and K6 didn't change anything. Fuses F5 and F6 look fine. According to the manual it needs a go command and a reverse command to turn atc backwards. Its obviously not getting the reverse command.

    Any guidance would be great.
    Thanks again

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    Yes it needs a go command and a reverse command to turn backwards. It actually uses a single phase motor which is strange for a vmc. The go command is providing power and the reverse command switches the start winding for the single phase motor so it runs backwards.

    There are also 2 solid state relays (K12 provides power, K11 does the reversing). Wouldnt hurt to check or replace these too. I think these SSR control K5 and K33 (not K6 as you mentioned) ice cube relays which actually turn on/reverse the motor. Not sure which one of the ice cube relays is for what. Manual also says to check CB2.

    If your totally stuck id be temped to try removing K11 and jumping the two pins on the relay board for a quick test. This should power up one of the ice cube relays to reverse the start windings, making it go the opposite way when it does rotate. At least this would tell you if the problem is before the solid state relay (something with the controller signal) or after (something on the relay board). Im guessing its one of the relays, try replacing/swapping all of them first.

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    Also, as a work around for now, instead of hand loading tools, you can program in some extra toolchanges to make it go CW only. For example you cant go from T3 to T1, but you can go from from T3-T13 and then T13-T1 will all be CW moves on a 21 pocket toolchanger. Probably better then hand loading for most jobs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmurray70 View Post
    Yes it needs a go command and a reverse command to turn backwards. It actually uses a single phase motor which is strange for a vmc. The go command is providing power and the reverse command switches the start winding for the single phase motor so it runs backwards.

    There are also 2 solid state relays (K12 provides power, K11 does the reversing). Wouldnt hurt to check or replace these too. I think these SSR control K5 and K33 (not K6 as you mentioned) ice cube relays which actually turn on/reverse the motor. Not sure which one of the ice cube relays is for what. Manual also says to check CB2.

    If your totally stuck id be temped to try removing K11 and jumping the two pins on the relay board for a quick test. This should power up one of the ice cube relays to reverse the start windings, making it go the opposite way when it does rotate. At least this would tell you if the problem is before the solid state relay (something with the controller signal) or after (something on the relay board). Im guessing its one of the relays, try replacing/swapping all of them first.

    I should have snapped a photo of my board. Will try to remember to tonight when I'm at the machine. K11 and K12 are little soldiered on boards. May still be relays boards, but they are not removable without un-soldering. (At lead that is what I remember.

    The 1100 board is pretty dirty especially around the bottom where K11 and K12 are at. This machine was in a building with a fire and I think it got wet either when hosing the place down or when they were cleaning the smoke off the machine. I ended up replacing the VFD when I bought it, I wonder if something got shorted on this board at the same time.

    I'll check CB2 also. Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfenstien View Post
    K11 and K12 are little soldiered on boards. May still be relays boards, but they are not removable without un-soldering. (At lead that is what I remember.
    They are solid state relays with round pins on the bottom. They pull straight out, and just push back in. Fadal uses a bunch of these. The larger 3a ones have a black case around them, and some of the smaller cheaper ones have no case and just look like a circuit board. See here ITS: Solid State Relay, ELE-0071

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmurray70 View Post
    They are solid state relays with round pins on the bottom. They pull straight out, and just push back in. Fadal uses a bunch of these. The larger 3a ones have a black case around them, and some of the smaller cheaper ones have no case and just look like a circuit board. See here ITS: Solid State Relay, ELE-0071
    Ah,

    perfect, Thank you for the link too. I'll get a couple ordered as well as some of the 3Amp so I've got some spares on hand.

    I let you know when if that makes a difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmurray70 View Post
    They are solid state relays with round pins on the bottom. They pull straight out, and just push back in. Fadal uses a bunch of these. The larger 3a ones have a black case around them, and some of the smaller cheaper ones have no case and just look like a circuit board. See here ITS: Solid State Relay, ELE-0071

    Turns out I had a box of these relays from parts machine I bought a bunch of boards out of.

    Replaced K11 and everything started working again. Ran the rest of the evening without any hiccups.

    Thanks for the help!

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