Fadal VMC15 using a lot of oil

aarongough · May 12, 2020

Hey guys,
Question for other Fadal owners out there... How often do you have to refill the oil on your machines? I recently put a Fadal VMC15 back into service, this machine has the PDI lube pump system and it just *drinks* oil... It's already half emptied the lube reservoir and I've only been running it for a couple of weeks. The bottom of the enclosure is getting covered in oil as well.

It's building full pressure when it cycles the lube pump, which I *believe* means that there are no serious leaks before the metering units, otherwise it would all just leak out there and the system would not hold pressure?

Just curious if something is wrong or if this is expected. Given the current rate of consumption it looks like I'll be going through a gallon of Vactra #2 every 2-3 months or so which seems crazy?? The stroke on the lube reservoir is set to the maximum setting, are other people's lube pumps setup the same way?

-Aaron

Bobw · May 12, 2020

Dude.. A gallon every 2-3 months?

I don't know were to start.. I think first off, is you are used
to a grease machine. (I wish they were all grease machines, way
lube is a pain in the ass).

That sounds about right to me, once a month or so, top 'em up. More
often if its running a lot.

If you have a busted line, you'll end up emptying the pump in a few days.
You'll know really fast, and you'll have a huge mess (guess how I know that?)

And yes, oil makes a mess in the sump. I've never seen a linear machine with
oil, so they may leak into the machine faster than the box ways.

The pump should also not do anything after 7 minutes of the machine not moving,
might have a look at that and make sure somebody didn't hot wire it. Then again,
your cycle times are pretty long, and its probably not sitting much.

I'd turn the volume down if you can. And maybe if the oil drives you nuts, see
how much work it is to swap it over to a grease machine. Same screws, same rails,
same ball nuts, in theory it should be fine.

A gallon every couple of months is nothing. I've got a lathe that will drink that
in a week if I leave it on. I also got a screaming deal at the oil place, buckets of Vistac for $35,
I think I bought 9 of them. Should keep me going for about 3years.

ripperj · May 12, 2020

Aaron- my VMC 20 uses about the same amount. One thing I noticed with mine, even with the E-stop in, the PDI still lubes.
I added a Skimpy El Niño belt type skimmer which gets most all of the oil out of the sump. It’s on a timer and runs for 2 hrs in the middle of the nite, every night. Pretty inexpensive and well made.

I just a cut a hole through the mesh screen and added a simple angle frame.

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Bobw · May 12, 2020

One other thought. You could change out the oil injectors for lower volume ones.

Maybe somebody replaced them all with higher volume injectors??

If you are going to change a lot of them out, the Fadal ones are identical
to the standard ones, except with Imperial threads. The ones with metric
threads are a decent bit cheaper (Its been years, so my memory might be
fading), but my plan, if I ever need to replace a bunch of injectors is
to swap it all over to metric. The manifolds are cheap, and the compression
fittings on the lines are cheap too (though those might be the same).

aarongough · May 12, 2020

Haha ok thanks guys! Bob you're totally correct that I've gotten used to my VMC10 which is a grease machine... Couple of shots every few months and that's it! Very clean to run whereas this machine is making a real mess that's for sure!

Good to know there's nothing wrong, I guess I will just make sure I keep at least a gallon of Vactra #2 in stock!

Changing out the injectors for lower volume ones certainly might be an option down the road. It just seems to me that there's no way the machine needs this much oil, I want it to have a long life of course but jeez!

Thanks again!

Ianagos · May 12, 2020

The oil consumption seems correct. My Fadal 5020 uses more maybe a tank every 2-3 weeks. Just buy the vactra in 5 gallon buckets only $100 each usually.

RH68 · May 12, 2020

ripperj said:
Aaron- my VMC 20 uses about the same amount. One thing I noticed with mine, even with the E-stop in, the PDI still lubes.
I added a Skimpy El Niño belt type skimmer which gets most all of the oil out of the sump. It’s on a timer and runs for 2 hrs in the middle of the nite, every night. Pretty inexpensive and well made.

I just a cut a hole through the mesh screen and added a simple angle frame.

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I liked the looks of that skimmer so much I just called and ordered one myself. I've needed one for a while.

alphonso · May 12, 2020

aarongough said:
Good to know there's nothing wrong, I guess I will just make sure I keep at least a gallon of Vactra #2 in stock!

A gallon?! I go thru 55 gallons in 6 months.

ripperj · May 12, 2020

alphonso said:
A gallon?! I go thru 55 gallons in 6 months.

On a dozen machines?

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aarongough · May 12, 2020

ripperj said:
On a dozen machines?

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Yeah hopefully not just on one machine lol! Maybe using way lube as coolant? No need for an oil skimmer then I guess...

kazlx · May 12, 2020

Side note:

These work great for the 5 gal buckets of way lube. I keep it tucked right in the corner and it makes it easy to fill the tank.

https://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Too...s=5+gallon+bucket+pump&qid=1589322742&sr=8-11

Garwood · May 12, 2020

A gallon every few weeks sounds about right for a CNC mill in general. One of my big ones shoots a tablespoon of oil into the Z ballnut every 10 minutes. It's a 2.5" screw so I'm OK with that. I don't ever want to have to replace it.

in2glamisgirl · May 12, 2020

I checked our VMC 15 and the Bijur is set to 6cc per stroke.
2qt's every 4 weeks running 50hrs week.

Delw · May 12, 2020

yours if about right

Boxed way machines should be kept using the same amount of oil recommended by the manufacture(fadal has a spec in there manual I couldnt find it with a quick look). want to screw up turcite fast run less oil. the friction will cause the turcite to wear faster and also if you have a shitty metal to turcite bonding job it will loosen up and break off.
alot of guys love to cut there oil usage in 1/2 on box way machines to save on oil cost. 2-5 years down the road the machine wont repeat and has missing turcite and nice scratched up ways.

My citizen drinks the stuff second comes the 96 fadal. My MIyano slant 50 and the 2000 fadal are pretty light on oil consumption.
on the fadals if you see any oil around the threads of the metering units or manifolds you have a leak. usually over time the threads will back off from vibration, the manifold cracks or the lube line ferrule wears out.

at a shop I used to work at way back when we had all boxed way machines big ones 36" chuck 72 in face plate/chuck machines. we went through about 55 gals every 6-7 months if I recall about 12 machines that ran 20 hours a day.

mmurray70 · May 12, 2020

My 4020 goes through a tank in about 2 weeks. You will definitely need a skimmer. Not hard to make one with a tiny, cheap dc gearmotor and just turn a couple pulleys. Dont even need a linkage between them, bottom one can just hang in belt. I made a belt by cutting a strip out of a mcmastercarr bag and it worked perfectly, was thinking this would be temporary but been there over 3 years now and runs every night lol.

Another big bonus if you make your own is you can build a little box with a baffle to better separate the oil from the coolant. Oil drains into a container and coolant goes back to tank. Some of the bought skimmers dont separate the oil that well which is a pain.

Delw · May 12, 2020

mmurray70 said:
My 4020 goes through a tank in about 2 weeks. You will definitely need a skimmer. Not hard to make one with a tiny, cheap dc gearmotor and just turn a couple pulleys. Dont even need a linkage between them, bottom one can just hang in belt. I made a belt by cutting a strip out of a mcmastercarr bag and it worked perfectly, was thinking this would be temporary but been there over 3 years now and runs every night lol.

Another big bonus if you make your own is you can build a little box with a baffle to better separate the oil from the coolant. Oil drains into a container and coolant goes back to tank. Some of the bought skimmers dont separate the oil that well which is a pain.

you can make a disk one or belt by using a bbq rotisserie motor

macds · May 12, 2020

Aaron, I fill both my 4020s every monday morning.
Usually use 2/3 of the tank a week.
5 gallon pail with a pail pump sits rights beside the machine.

Be cautious of the way lube you select.
If you know what they were using before (as long as the lube system is still working correctly), try to keep using the same thing.
Different additive packages can cause parafin fallout (especially when mixed).

In my experience vactra is junk, and emulsifies too easily into the coolant.
Chevron stuff I ran into had bad sulphur fallout (crap in the bottom of the pail).
You can smell the sulphur in cheap waylube.

I use waylube 68 from Monarch Oil in Kitchener.
Doesnt emulsify, and I havnt had an oil line\metering valve plug up in the 20 years Ive been using it in Fadals.

Hope this helps.

TeachMePlease · May 13, 2020

Delw said:
My citizen drinks the stuff

Take a look in your settings. From the factory they come configured to shoot some way lube every XX minutes they're powered on, whether in use or not. Leave one on over the weekend and you can more or less empty your way lube.

alphonso · May 13, 2020

ripperj said:
On a dozen machines?

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Nah, just 10.

Fadal VMC15 using a *lot* of oil

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