fadal vmc40 will not power up
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    brooklyn park, mn
    Posts
    91
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default fadal vmc40 will not power up

    I had this problem when I first received it and replaced the power supply with a new one, and never had any major problems, maybe once in a while it would give me trouble, not not often.....until today. I go to power up the machine and all is good, go to cold start the machine and it said clear the e-stop (low on lube) then powered it down since it would not clear the e-stop. Go to restart and it does the weak sound where there is power in the back cabinet but does not power up like it should. I can hear ticking, open up the cabinet and the glentek p/n 4558-303 model ga380-2050 has a green light, BUT the red light keeps doing a faint red flash, and that is where the ticking is coming from. When I push the green button I get a relay that makes a real buzzing sound from below the transformer, and has a red light and the machine will not power up. I have attached the picture of the 4558-303 component and the relay in question. I would love if someone can get me going again

    edit: when it does this the work light comes on, but dim, like it is not getting full voltage.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 0412191624.jpg   0412191625a.jpg  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    California, Ventura county
    Posts
    1,398
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    255
    Likes (Received)
    601

    Default

    start by checking the power coming in to the machine.
    power company 3 phase or converter ?
    also check voltage in and out of the power supply

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    brooklyn park, mn
    Posts
    91
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    Power is coming from a 10hp phase perfect digital converter.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    brooklyn park, mn
    Posts
    91
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    update, played with it a little this morning. The card with the red flickering light is in between the three power leads coming from the transformer for the spindle inverter and a heating element (not sure if that is what it is, but sure looks like a heating element) above the main cabinet. When I disconnect the three leads from the transformer the machine powers up just fine and sounds the best it ever has. Note that the spindle inverter has no error codes, so could the heating element be shorting out? This machine still has the old freqrol z300 spindle inverter. I sure hope it is not the inverter that is the problem....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Phoenix,AZ.
    Posts
    112
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    28
    Likes (Received)
    63

    Default

    The Heating element is a Regen resistor or also called a dynamic braking resistor. It helps slow down the spindle quickly by absorbing the energy the spindle motor is dumping to slow down. I've never had a braking resistor go out in 15 years with 5 Fadals but it's possible. Go thru your troubleshooting flow chart in the Fadal manual.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    brooklyn park, mn
    Posts
    91
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    Just to update, I reseated several connections, and poof, two times I have powered up with no signs of problems. So either my inverter is on its way out and picking when it wants to work, or a connection was working its way loose. Lets hope for the latter. thanks guys!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    brooklyn park, mn
    Posts
    91
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    Yeah, I spoke too soon. When I posted it was fine, that was just to get it to power up, never tried to run it. Before I could not get the fans to get to speed, machine light was dim and could not get the controller to come up. Now I don't have that red flickering light on the external brake for the spindle, but now my spindle will not power on. I can home my machine, and jog my axis, but will get a c fault when doing a spindle command. Inverter does not look like it is powering on when I look at it in back. There is a light on, but it did that also when I tried to run it on single phase when I first got it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    628
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    229
    Likes (Received)
    122

    Default

    Did you check your main fuses, Power in and out, on all three legs phase-to-phase?
    Also, a 10 HP converter... sounds a bit on the low side.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    brooklyn park, mn
    Posts
    91
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    checked power at the inverter:
    10v 237v 229v
    power coming in to switch
    226v
    330v
    430v(weird, even more so since the PP states 225/226/227v)
    after the fuses
    10v 227v 227v
    Pulled the middle fuses and ohmed each one and sure enough, one is open. Guess it is time for a new fuse.....

    phase perfect is not rated like rotary phase converters, to power a 10hp you need there 10hp.
    thanks again.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    628
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    229
    Likes (Received)
    122

    Default

    Every element of these machines are simple.
    It is just that there are simply so many of them...
    I always start at the top.
    Oh, and the 10HP thing... you have to accout for more than the spindle.
    Those peripherals... they draw a bit. Coolant pumps, lights, conveyors... all else.
    Which was a point, but surge and start-up loading.
    I aim high. I do not know your converter.
    I hope everything is good.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    brooklyn park, mn
    Posts
    91
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    Waaaaaa! I installed the new fuse, threw the switch and POP! So depressed, I had really hoped it was just a bad fuse. I wish I had setup video so I could see exactly where the spark came from, it looked to be on right side of the transformer where there is a reset switch where the three L lines connect. I checked and the same fuse popped. L2 must have a short on it somewhere and I do not know the next best step. I don't want something dangerous and I don't want to keep buying these expensive fuses, so anyone have some good diagnostic step to start at?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    433
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    29
    Likes (Received)
    146

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Billsnogo View Post

    edit: when it does this the work light comes on, but dim, like it is not getting full voltage.
    key here is the above quote, i would double and triple check your incoming power from the phase convertor to machine.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    brooklyn park, mn
    Posts
    91
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Delw View Post
    key here is the above quote, i would double and triple check your incoming power from the phase convertor to machine.
    I will do that this weekend when I get a chance (fixing my wifes car is top priority at this moment and an easier fix!).
    The incoming voltages the last time I checked were pretty weird.
    power coming in to switch
    226v
    330v
    430v(weird, even more so since the Phase Perfect states 225/226/227v on its digital readout)
    after the fuses
    10v 227v 227v
    Overtime has been cut for the last several months so money is not as available as I want to throw at this, so all the help so far is GREATLY appreciated.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    433
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    29
    Likes (Received)
    146

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Billsnogo View Post
    I will do that this weekend when I get a chance (fixing my wifes car is top priority at this moment and an easier fix!).
    The incoming voltages the last time I checked were pretty weird.
    power coming in to switch
    226v
    330v
    430v(weird, even more so since the Phase Perfect states 225/226/227v on its digital readout)
    after the fuses
    10v 227v 227v
    That appears to be your problem right there.
    no sense in going any further until that problem s fixed, cause you can cause a ton of damage to the electronic with bad power.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    brooklyn park, mn
    Posts
    91
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    It looks like you are correct. I bought this phase perfect new because it was more expensive, but wanted to do it right and do it only once......
    The digital readout states 227/228/229v output, 227 input
    I had taken a handfull of readouts including shutting off and restarting the digital phase converter
    result where VERY weird.
    1st
    L1-L2 280V
    L1-L3 227V
    L2-L3 235V
    2ND
    L1-L2 285-305V fluctuating
    L1-L3 235V
    L2-L3 235V
    3rd
    L1-L2 290-305V fluctuating
    L1-L3 235V
    L2-L3 235V
    4th (restarted converter)L1-L2 280V
    L1-L2 228V
    L1-L3 405-450V fluctuating
    L2-L3 586-670V fluctuating
    5th (restarted again)
    L1-L2 230V
    L1-L3 411-450V fluctuating
    L2-L3 600-700V! fluctuating

    I used my cheap harbor freight multi-meter because my nice one leads will not fit in the area I can access, but think you were right on and my more expensive than spindle inverter phase converter is having trouble. I will need to take readings at my knife switch before the buck boost transformer, coming into the phase converter, and leaving the phase converter before I call them. It is either 2 or three years old with at max 500 hours......crap

    thanks again :/

    oh, and it looks like the sparks came from my 1170 power surge protection board killing it I assume....

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    628
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    229
    Likes (Received)
    122

    Default

    When it goes this far...
    I call my buddy Dave...
    M&M CNC (818) 974-3992 Pocket phone.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    brooklyn park, mn
    Posts
    91
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    Yeah, I might have to call a tech also.....
    I finally was able to squeeze my probes for my good multi-meter in the square d box on the machine, and it show steady 227-229v between all three legs. I kept testing with my cheap meter and it looked fine until after 3 times testing it finally showed 400v fluctuating so I hooked up my good meter and it still ready just fine at 228v, SO it looks like all those other reading were bunk.

    So to update everyone on current situation so hopefully I can get some more great help.
    #1
    When this all started I would throw the knife switch on the box, and before I hit the green button I would hear ticking and see the red led flashing in unison on the glentek spindle external brake. When this happened it would not allow the machine to power up when hitting the green button. The light in the machine would be dim and the fans did not sound like they were up to full speed. This has happened on and off since I have had the machine, but usually it would work if I turned it on and off again.
    #2
    When I unhooked the three leads on the transformer going to the spindle inverter it would turn the light on the spindle brake green instead of red, the fans came up to full speed, and the light in the machine was at full brightness.
    #3
    I hooked up the the power to the spindle inverter again, tried turning it on and same as #1 happened again. Tried powering on and off and just would not come up.
    #4
    Checked to make sure all the wires at the spindle inverter, external brake, and transformer were solid, removed the fuse on the spindle brake and reinstalled.
    #5
    With the power to the spindle inverter still hooked up I powered it up and green light on the spindle inverter, fans at full speed, full light on work light in machine. I pushed the green button and the screen came on and it worked. I had THOUGHT everything had been fine but did not try to turn on the spindle.
    #6
    Tried the machine a couple days later so I could run some parts. Tried to warm up the machine but during Cold Start instead of saying just "a axis fault" (don't have my fourth hooked up) it stated c axis fault also, but it always just shoots that up while doing a CS and goes on. I gave it a spindle command and it faulted out. Spindle inverter had not power on. Checked for power on all three legs and the main fuse on L2 had blown.
    #7
    Hoping the fuse had been on it's way out and causing the issue I bought another, installed, and threw the switch. BANG! Flash came out the back on the rear cabinet. One of the Varistors on the surge suppressor board 1170 blew up, and that same fuse blew again. Now when power is applied NOTHING happens, maybe because of the surge suppressor blowing?
    #8
    checked power coming in with my cheap meter and kept getting weird readings leading me to think it was my phase converter. Today hooked up my good multimeter and power is just fine.

    Now what do I do for step #9? I am afraid to replace the fuse and surge suppressor just to have it blow again. Not cheap..... So how do I test at this point without just blowing things up?

    Do note that the power supply is less than a year old.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    433
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    29
    Likes (Received)
    146

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Billsnogo View Post
    Yeah, I might have to call a tech also.....
    I finally was able to squeeze my probes for my good multi-meter in the square d box on the machine, and it show steady 227-229v between all three legs. I kept testing with my cheap meter and it looked fine until after 3 times testing it finally showed 400v fluctuating so I hooked up my good meter and it still ready just fine at 228v, SO it looks like all those other reading were bunk.

    So to update everyone on current situation so hopefully I can get some more great help.
    #1
    When this all started I would throw the knife switch on the box, and before I hit the green button I would hear ticking and see the red led flashing in unison on the glentek spindle external brake. When this happened it would not allow the machine to power up when hitting the green button. The light in the machine would be dim and the fans did not sound like they were up to full speed. This has happened on and off since I have had the machine, but usually it would work if I turned it on and off again.
    #2
    When I unhooked the three leads on the transformer going to the spindle inverter it would turn the light on the spindle brake green instead of red, the fans came up to full speed, and the light in the machine was at full brightness.
    #3
    I hooked up the the power to the spindle inverter again, tried turning it on and same as #1 happened again. Tried powering on and off and just would not come up.
    #4
    Checked to make sure all the wires at the spindle inverter, external brake, and transformer were solid, removed the fuse on the spindle brake and reinstalled.
    #5
    With the power to the spindle inverter still hooked up I powered it up and green light on the spindle inverter, fans at full speed, full light on work light in machine. I pushed the green button and the screen came on and it worked. I had THOUGHT everything had been fine but did not try to turn on the spindle.
    #6
    Tried the machine a couple days later so I could run some parts. Tried to warm up the machine but during Cold Start instead of saying just "a axis fault" (don't have my fourth hooked up) it stated c axis fault also, but it always just shoots that up while doing a CS and goes on. I gave it a spindle command and it faulted out. Spindle inverter had not power on. Checked for power on all three legs and the main fuse on L2 had blown.
    #7
    Hoping the fuse had been on it's way out and causing the issue I bought another, installed, and threw the switch. BANG! Flash came out the back on the rear cabinet. One of the Varistors on the surge suppressor board 1170 blew up, and that same fuse blew again. Now when power is applied NOTHING happens, maybe because of the surge suppressor blowing?
    #8
    checked power coming in with my cheap meter and kept getting weird readings leading me to think it was my phase converter. Today hooked up my good multimeter and power is just fine.

    Now what do I do for step #9? I am afraid to replace the fuse and surge suppressor just to have it blow again. Not cheap..... So how do I test at this point without just blowing things up?

    Do note that the power supply is less than a year old.
    take a picture of your 1170 board and the part were it blew.

    you have the taps set correctly on the transformer correct? and you have the correct wires to the spindle drive correct?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    433
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    29
    Likes (Received)
    146

    Default

    The dimming of the light is was baffles me.as its intermitent, hence why I think its your incoming power or you have your transofrer in the machine set wrong

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    los angels ca.
    Posts
    51
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Billsnogo View Post
    I had this problem when I first received it and replaced the power supply with a new one, and never had any major problems, maybe once in a while it would give me trouble, not not often.....until today. I go to power up the machine and all is good, go to cold start the machine and it said clear the e-stop (low on lube) then powered it down since it would not clear the e-stop. Go to restart and it does the weak sound where there is power in the back cabinet but does not power up like it should. I can hear ticking, open up the cabinet and the glentek p/n 4558-303 model ga380-2050 has a green light, BUT the red light keeps doing a faint red flash, and that is where the ticking is coming from. When I push the green button I get a relay that makes a real buzzing sound from below the transformer, and has a red light and the machine will not power up. I have attached the picture of the 4558-303 component and the relay in question. I would love if someone can get me going again

    edit: when it does this the work light comes on, but dim, like it is not getting full voltage.
    Fadal act funny, have one 4020 that wont start in cold weather
    that one i use hair dryier on the 120v power supply.
    other if left untouched by weeks,won't start,spend two days re-setting boards
    and finally, did not had to use a mechanic, x axis overload, sometimes no video.
    its second time this issue, video if screen off, re-tight or crimp a bit card connector
    #4,board and fix it, re-set mill-board, removed x axis motor, clean with computer cleaner
    resolver area, tried different re-gen fuses no luck, but after second day tight a bit motor
    brush and i was able to cold star,my mechanic says the if we power off, so many times we may
    damage inverter, anyways machine run, seems all errors start at x, controll begins at power-up by x axis, if voltage is not right alarms whole machine.
    some people say is humidity, i have think is inverter, the one in machine is replacement
    is ame,do not trust them, other is baldor, stupid inverters do not have resets,so fadals
    are a bit un-reliables


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •