FADAL VMC4020 CNC review

I am interested in buying a used FADAL VMC 4020 CNC. Price is 24 900$, year 2001. Is that a good machine? Where are Fadal machine manufacture?

They used to be made in Chatsworth, right next door to where Haas was. Their old building is now indoor RV parking.

For a 2001 4020, that sounds about 10K high.

Larry Dickman said:

For a 2001 4020, that sounds about 10K high.

Click to expand...

If it is Canuck Bucks it works out to aboot $18.5K USD. It still seems a few grand too high.

Do a search, they get talked about a lot here.. A LOT..

I'm going to say its kind of high also.. I was offered a 2001 6030 and a 2003(I think it was 2003) 4525 a few weeks ago for 40k USD, package deal.

Good machine? The Fisher Price of machine tools. They aren't a Mori, they aren't a Mazak, they are a simple commodity machine tool.
They made a TON of them, and they were all basically the same for almost 20 years... Parts are cheap and available from a surprising
# of aftermarket suppliers. Support is free from most of those places, and here, since a bunch of us have 'em..

Control is drop dead simple. Menu driven. You tell it what you want to do and then it literally baby steps you through how to do it,
tells you what to do, and what keys to hit.. There are some awesome utilities in there also for setting fixture and tool offsets..
There is even a condensed manual RIGHT IN THE CONTROL so you don't have to go and find a paper manual or download it (again)... Oh yeah,
and the manuals are all online and free also, no $100 greasy manuals from E-bay.

Treat her well, talk to her, maintain her... And she'll be a good machine for ya..

This is not a complaint:

I swear Bob must have his Fadal explanation post saved on his desktop somewhere, so he can copy and paste it every time someone asks about them.

Then in the same folder, he's got those pictures of MOUNTAINS of chips and NON-ALCOHOLIC beverage cans.

I always enjoy seeing both of these things.

I think Bobw should start getting commissions from everyone who's sold a Fadal and been on this site. He's probably done more for the brand than the brand itself ever did

I was in your shoes a year ago, and I'm pretty sure it was one of Bobw's posts that convinced me the Fadal was the right choice for me.

I'm not a high production shop by any means, and I'm lucky enough that I don't need to make chips to keep the doors open. For my needs the Fadal has been absolutely perfect. Simple enough to work on it myself, and if something happens that I feel is over my head there is a ton of support available online and over the phone from just about any retailer.

Bobw is directly responsible for the Fadal in garage. His logic has proven to be spot on!!

schuter said:

Bobw is directly responsible for the Fadal in garage. His logic has proven to be spot on!!

Click to expand...

I hope you aren't married, the last thing I need is another woman mad at me....

Since I didn't realize I turned into the "Fadal Cheerleader"... I'll tell you what led me down that path.. Many moons ago I worked
at a shop (and ended up running it), we moved, sold off old garbage, merged, brought in new stuff, un-merged.. CRAZY times..
Lots of hours, lots of stress, lots of fun, and TONS of lessons learned (on somebody else's dime)..

We ended up with a Mazak FJV20 and a Fadal 4020 on the floor.. This was my first introduction to "REAL" machine tools..

At first I didn't want a F'n thing to do with the conversational thing.. That was for weak minded individuals that didn't understand G-code...
(there was a Mazak QT20 in there also, my first "REAL" CNC lathe, F* the accuslide with a Fagor thing).

I fell head over heals in love with that FJV... FAST, ACCURATE, RIGID, NEVER BROKE DOWN.. As time went on I learned to love the
Mazatrol on the lathe, still love it... I'll eat a disgusting, nasty, ass-smelling peach before I ever G-code a lathe again. The 3 axis mill,
not so keen on the conversational, awesome at the simple stuff, sucks on the rest.. While that FJV was HAULING ass for years, that F'n Fadal, she
was making parts, and breaking down every so often (If you didn't know, EMPLOYEES, especially UN-skilled shop hands, BREAK things)..

I was really loving that FJV.. Reliable and rocket fast, Accurate, beautiful surface finishes.. Not so good at low revs, a 7/8 HSS twisty drill would
stall it at .004 a rev (the Fadal would push her at .010 a rev and barely move the load meter). Moved a job from the Fadal to the Mazak, same feeds, same
speeds, same tools.. 6.5 minutes to 3.5 minutes, rapids, accelerations and tool changes made the difference....

And then, a bit before I left there.. That Mazak started having some issues.. The tool change FELL OUT OF THE MACHINE... That was an interesting
phone call at 8pm..

"tool changer fell out, what should I do"..

"Are you high? WTF do you mean!?!?!?!"

"Tool changer fell out of the machine, wires are holding it up, what should I do?
I tried pushing it back up, but it won't stay"

Then the spindle puked... $11.5k plus $11.5k core, plus $2900 to put it in and retain the warranty.. A 7 month warranty.. And
I was gone by then, but it puked its guts up at 7 months and 4 days.. (I have no idea how it was abused)

That $$$$14.4k bill, plus shipping, for a F'n SPINDLE that can't drive a 3/4" drill.. No way I was going Mazak(mills) right out of the
hole with my own deal... My first Fadal was bought in 2007 for $12k (less than the Mazak spindle, '93 4020 extended Z), the second was
in 2008.. Down payment was wired the morning that the whole bail out thing happened.. Couldn't even get a bank to bite with 50% down and
25% interest.. $24k, 4020 extended Z with a VH65 4th, beautiful machine, tight and well maintained, I have NEVER done the bellevilles
on it, and I bought them before it showed up, they are still in a box on top of the machine..

6 or 7 years of ever increasing BULLSHIT and no new machines.. And a lawsuit.... And now its just me(THANK GOD!!).. A lot of lawyer money, a lot of accountant money(holy clusterfuck!!!), replacing stuff, FIXING stuff, I bought(paying and gaining equity instead of leasing) the building,
and now time to start EXPANDING capacity...

Fadal to the rescue.. A VMC15xt, bought from a member here.. I paid more than I could have got one for on E-bay, but I knew where it came
from, I knew a lot of its history.. I hope we both made out on the deal, I'm very happy with it.. Its a little Baby Fadal.. My RS232 switch
box up here is now labeled '93 Fadal, '94 Fadal, and Baby Fadal.... She'll pay for herself by the end of the year easily..

Even if I go totally tits up, I can pay for that last Fadal working at McDonalds, I wouldn't be able to do that with a new Mazak or a Mori
or even a F'n Haas... If ONE of my Fadals breaks, pretty much no matter what it is, I'm not $14k into it, $3k at the absolute worst.

I'm not saying that a Fadal is the be all and end all, but if you are on a budget and don't want to be in a ton of debt, and don't want to
end up with a $10k breakdown. Fadal is where its at.. They are like the Chevy Small Block of the machine tool world.. (and I HATE chevy's, Ford from my Mom's side and Mopar from my Dad's side)...

Next steps.. Another QT20 (late 90's) and maybe or maybe not a 4th Fadal.. And then a Horizontal, late 90's Mazak(most likely)... From there,
who knows.. One of these days I'll buy a new machine... Maybe... But definitely newer machines.

A Fadal is what a Fadal is.. Its never going to be a rocket, its never going to have a fast tool change, it WILL BREAK.. But parts are cheap, they are readily available and easy to get from MULTIPLE sources. Support is easily and readily available... And if you maintain and take
care of it properly, its a pretty damn capable machine, power, rigidity and accuracy, its not the BEST, but its pretty impressive considering its a low end commodity machine.

Fadal is almost unprecedented in the machine tool world.. I need a Fadal part (and they've been out of business for a while, I don't consider
"new" Fadal to be the same company), I can go to 5 or so different places to get parts.. Sitting on the shelf, and cheaper than pretty much any comparable part on any other machine tool out there. How can you lose? Cheap machines, cheap, plentiful parts, capable machines, tons of support.. Apparently you can even put one in your garage.. How cool is that???

And just because, $12k machine in 2007, showed up with .019" of slop in the Y, a little fluffing, a little loving, she'll interpolate a bore
with no witness marks within a thou, and she can take a HELL OF A CUT.. 12 cubic inches or so a minute in 4340 annealed, 180-240ipm... Just shy of 3 of these piles on ONE single sub $50 half inch endmill. How could I go Wrong???? Just F'n around I have pulled 23 cubes a minute
in 1018, but she did start to bog a bit.. That's 6 and a half pounds a minute, of STEEL with a 1/2" endmill in a 20 year old POS dirt cheap
Fadal.. 15 real continuous HORSEpower, 22.5hp for 5 minutes I think.. Not HAASpower, HORSEpower..

Dude, are you insane, burying your way covers like that!

Perry Harrington said:

Dude, are you insane, burying your way covers like that!

Click to expand...

I had 39 to do, I got 13 on day 1, shoveled during the day.. 13 on day 2 shoveled during the day.. And on Day 3, I ran out
of barrels and wheel barrels to fill, so I said F-it, and let it fill up... The cleaning guy/handyman was coming at 5am the 4th
day, guess what his job was first thing in the morning???

I kept pulling it back after each part to keep the covers clear, but that is how it looked after part #39... I added the refreshment can,
but....

I wish it had been winter, I would have been shoveling those hot chips and dragging the hot barrels into the office.. The other side of the
machine was full of hot face mill chips.. I've never seen a machine get that hot before, the WHOLE thing, all 11,400lbs were warm, the vises were
actually HOT.. It was a roughing op, all dry, no coolant to cool it down at all.

So Fadal it is.

Thanks all

S.Courtois said:

So Fadal it is.

Thanks all

Click to expand...

Treat her well, and talk to her and she'll make you a lot of money.

Bobw said:

Treat her well, and talk to her and she'll make you a lot of money.

Click to expand...

Like the opposite of a woman.

Bobw said:

Treat her well, and talk to her and she'll make you a lot of money.

Click to expand...

Now you sound like a pimp!

TeachMePlease said:

This is not a complaint:

I swear Bob must have his Fadal explanation post saved on his desktop somewhere, so he can copy and paste it every time someone asks about them.

Then in the same folder, he's got those pictures of MOUNTAINS of chips and NON-ALCOHOLIC beverage cans.

I always enjoy seeing both of these things.

Click to expand...

Lol, I think he's got the coolant one saved too. You know the one where he recommends not peeing in the coolant tank.

Edster said:

Lol, I think he's got the coolant one saved too. You know the one where he recommends not peeing in the coolant tank.

Click to expand...

I don't think that's a photo I've seen.

Or maybe I blacked out a little, who knows?

Restoring a CNC machine! (Vertical Machining Center) - YouTube

Some guy really loves a fadal up!

Sorry of this has been asked too many times and/or a dumb question (Yeah, I've searched - no helpful results): What's the lathe equivalent of a Fadal, or is there one?

Two things:

I don't even need a mill and Bob has me checking ebay and craigslist for Fadals.

rohorn said:

Sorry of this has been asked too many times and/or a dumb question (Yeah, I've searched - no helpful results): What's the lathe equivalent of a Fadal, or is there one?

Click to expand...

No experience in the area, but based off of reading the forums I would say 90s Mazaks. Mazatrol is supposed to be very straight forward and the machine just keep running. I'm sure others can chime in with some first hand experience.