Fanuc 21i backing up parameters questions

Milacron · Jan 23, 2014

Occasionally downloading parameters to a memory card or whatever is mentioned here and someone says "if you can, be sure and backup the options parameters too. I did a backup today and didn't find any mention in any manual, or on the control, of the "options" parameters...so do tell more.

Also I was surprised my regular parameters, which on paper single row per page, takes up 95 pages, totaled at about 71,000 kb whereas my PMC parameters, which take up only 3 pages on paper, totaled over twice as much 143,000 kb. What's up with that ?

jCandlish · Jan 24, 2014

Milacron said:
...so do tell more.

Stupidly enough, Fanuc saw fit to document the boot loader and backup functions in the B-66102E "FAPT MACRO COMPILER for PersonalComputer Operator's Manual". Really. Section G. BOOT SYSTEM (FOR Series 16–B/C,18–B/C, 20, 21–B, 0–A).

Here is (some of) what Section G.2.4. System Data Save Screen says:

(1) Difference between a system file and user file for SYSTEM DATA SAVE
SYSTEM DATA SAVE protects system files so that they cannot be
copied easily. User files are not protected.
(2) Names of saved files
The names of the files written from flash memory to the memory card
are as follows:

Series 21
Flash memory Memory card
NC BASIC NC_BASIC.XXX
DG SERVO DG_SERVO.XXX
NC1 OPTN NC1_OPTN.XXX
PMC-RA PMC–RA.XXX
PCD 128k PCD_128k.XXX
PCD 256k PCD_256k.XXX
PCD 0.5M PCD_0.5M.XXX
PCD 1.0M PCM_1.0M.XXX

XXX is equivalent to the extension assigned to MS-DOS file names.
One of 32 numbers from 000 to 031 is assigned as XXX. For
example, if a PMC-RB file in flash memory is saved to a memory card
containing no PMC_RB.* files, the saved file is named
PMC_RB.000. If that same file is saved to a memory card that
already contains a PMC_RB.000 file, however, it is named
PMC_RB.001. In this way, the extension is incremented by one, up
to PMC_RB.031. If there are any free extension numbers in the
sequence of the extension numbers, they are used in ascending order.
If two or more files having identical names but different extension
numbers are saved to a single memory card, check the file names
displayed after saving. In the case of Serics 20, to write a P-CODE
macro file, with a password assigned by MLINK, from flash memory
to a memory card, the password must be entered. The macro
password is explained in Sec.G.4.

Then there is section G.2.5 SRAM Data Backup, which goes on:

This screen is used for the batch saving and restoring of parameters,
programs, and other data to be retained after the CNC is turned off to/from
a memory card.

Do you have the B-66102E FAPT manual?

I too would like to know how to backup (and restore) everything. That would be a great sticky for the CNC forum.

It is not at all clear to me if some data can only be punched/read over the tape interface.

I am certain that you are a few pages ahead in the homework than me.

.

WILLEO6709 · Jan 24, 2014

on the older controls there is a "secret" to it... I forget which key you press before exec to punch it out but it punches option params if you do it, I'd have to get my cheat book out.... but I don't recall if the i series is the same, as all i have is one 18i-tt. you should be able to see them in the list... in my 16-a's the options are 9000 series
I think its similar in my 18i-tt
not sure on a 21i.

memoryman · Jan 24, 2014

All controls after the 15A and 16/18A have the ability to save restore the info stored in flash and sram. This is a simple operation and is done through the BOOT screens. The SYSTEM files can also be done, but require a undocumented pair of keys pressed while powering up.
The most important info is contained in the volatile sram memory: programs, macros, offsets, parameters etc. That info is saved in up to 6 files, with a maximum file size of 512k each. For that reason I carry a 4 megabyte pcmcia SRAM card (~$160) for the backup/restore procedure. This backup should be done on regular basis.

Milacron · Jan 24, 2014

WILLEO6709 said:
on the older controls there is a "secret" to it... I forget which key you press before exec to punch it out but it punches option params if you do it, I'd have to get my cheat book out.... but I don't recall if the i series is the same, as all i have is one 18i-tt. you should be able to see them in the list... in my 16-a's the options are 9000 series
I think its similar in my 18i-tt
not sure on a 21i.

OMG...a "secret" method to do something that everyone needs to do.... do they have better crack in Japan than here ??

I did back up my offsets, ladder and keep relay info as well, but still wonder what I might be missing... I'm thinking the basic baud rate type stuff you have to actually write down ! (or take screen photos) Also seems ridiculous there is no obvious way to backup all programs in memory in one shot...have to do one at a time.

Milacron · Jan 24, 2014

memoryman said:
The most important info is contained in the volatile sram memory: programs, macros, offsets, parameters etc. That info is saved in up to 6 files, with a maximum file size of 512k each. For that reason I carry a 4 megabyte pcmcia SRAM card (~$160) for the backup/restore procedure. This backup should be done on regular basis.

I'm confused by your need of an SRAM card as just yesterday I downloaded all of what you mention to a standard issue flash card (via PCMCIA adapter) from 2004 vintage 21iTB with no problem whatsoever (except for it seeming ridiculous I had to seek out each of those groups in memory.....why on earth can't there be a way to download "everything" with one click ??)

WILLEO6709 · Jan 24, 2014

its easy to tell, look at your cnc param backup and see if it ends before the ones in the control do. you then either get out a tablet and a pencil or call fanuc and ask for the secret keystroke for your control... I think its holding down the p key when your press exec.... but it may be another key...

Milacron · Jan 24, 2014

<jbc> said:
Do you have the B-66102E FAPT manual?

I too would like to know how to backup (and restore) everything. That would be a great sticky for the CNC forum.

Don't have the FAPT manual... I was thinking FAPT was a sort of CAD/CAMish Fanuc option years ago ??

Re great sticky, no kidding...we need to settle this Fanuc backup confusion once and for all. Why it's so damn complicated is beyond me.... on Deckels (Dialog 11) or Mahos (Phillips 432) for example if your backup battery goes low you upload parameters (or "constants" as Maho calls them) in one click and that's it.... complete restore of everything automatically except for programs and offsets. Why does Fanuc have to be way more complicated ?

jCandlish · Jan 24, 2014

Milacron said:
Don't have the FAPT manual... I was thinking FAPT was a sort of CAD/CAMish Fanuc option years ago ??

Thats whats weird. Its were Fanuc decided to bury the bootloader documentation that applies to a whole series of controls. Accordingly Series 16–B/C,18–B/C, 20, 21–B, 0–A.

Odder yet, apparently there are some parameters that determine how the bootloader works. For example you can hide the 8000 and 9000 programs with the NE8 and NE9 bits of parameter 3202?

Still learning...

PMT · Jan 24, 2014

By far the easiest thing to do is a SRAM backup to an ATA card. This will back up ALL volatile memory.
Unfortunately, you can not read it but a SRAM restore will load it all back in.

If you wish to go thru the procedures of backing up readable params, pmc params, programs etc. I do not believe you will get the options.

I believe on the I series the options are stored in non volatile FROM and, therefore, are not lost with the other params.

Also, you can not load or modify the options even if you have them without:

A set of passwords for the "A" series;

A different set for the "b" series:

And, after mid 2006 you just plain need Fanuc. (so far)

jCandlish · Jan 24, 2014

PMT said:
I do not believe you will get the options.

Just exactly what is an option? Is it a special Macro the MTB included? Are they hidden parameters that enable special features? Or something else?

Even if the options are non-volatile, what if they depend upon volatile memory to store their state?

Milacron · Jan 24, 2014

The video below was frustrating to me as I can't hold down those two keys during bootup because those two keys are not available to me until after bootup is complete due to having a touchscreen !! :wall:

Fanuc 16i/ 18i/ 21i SRAM Memory backup - YouTube

(wille, is this the secret keystroke ?)

PMT · Jan 24, 2014

Memoryman,

I recently did a SRAM back up on a non I control where I had to use a Vikant SRAM card.

With the ATA cards, I copy file via PCMCIA - USB reader to my PC.

My PC will not see the SRAM card thru the reader. Neither would a couple others I tried although all see the ATA.

I tried the same with older laptop that had PCMCIA built in with same results.

Vikant blames reader (no info on laptop though) and suggests a $500 unit they use.

Can you store from PCMCIA SRAM card to PC and if so, what do you use?

Milacron · Jan 24, 2014

I was thinking a cringer with SRAM card (besides the cost) is they have a backup battery as well. So you could loose the backup to your backup if you're not vigilant.

PMT · Jan 24, 2014

Milacron said:
The video below was frustrating to me as I can't hold down those two keys during bootup because those two keys are not available to me until after bootup is complete due to having a touchscreen !!

Fanuc 16i/ 18i/ 21i SRAM Memory backup - YouTube

(wille, is this the secret keystroke ?)

Oooh... That sucks!

I thought I remember a question on this before regarding a touchscreen. I don't recall if the OP even got an answer on that.

Shirley Fanuc must know something. If you find out, please post because it will probably come up again.

And I will stop calling you Shirley.

jCandlish · Jan 24, 2014

Milacron said:
I was thinking a cringer with SRAM card (besides the cost) is they have a backup battery as well. So you could loose the backup to your backup if you're not vigilant.

Thats not always the case. I got some Allen Bradly Flash-ROMS from e-bay cheap. The kind used in network control equipment. They are Flashable ROMS and they worked in my Fanuc 20 when a CF-card in a PCMCIA adapter wouldn't.

I've actually got a real ATA hard disk in PCMCIA format that I'm going to give a try. Still no channel=4 for running subprograms off of the card though.

Is that an option or is it a model specific feature?

memoryman · Jan 24, 2014

The issue is the driver; not all pc card manufacturers had that working.
I use a old WIN2k laptop and have no problems with various makes of pc cards. Never used an adapter.

Milacron · Feb 3, 2014

PMT said:
Oooh... That sucks!

I thought I remember a question on this before regarding a touchscreen. I don't recall if the OP even got an answer on that.

Shirley Fanuc must know something. If you find out, please post because it will probably come up again.

While looking for something else, stumbled upon it in Fanuc literature. Haven't actually tried it yet, but here it is.... If soft keys are not provided, use MDI numeric keys. Hold down 6 and 7 keys until the boot system screen appears.

abselect · Oct 12, 2015

I need some help with uploading ladder on my 21i-TB controller
I got my PMC Ladder edited and I wan't to re upload however when I try I get the following error

"this function is protected"
I am loading via PCMCIA card.

I think this is because the Ladder has to be stopped! I don't know how to do this on my controller.
Appreciate any help.

Fanuc 21i backing up parameters questions

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